Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 03, 2008 03:24AM

Quote
kko
Just open View > Toolbars and uncheck "Lock Toolbars".

I did not have a check by "Lock Toolbars"

It seems that I can move the tab button area when it is next to the throbber on the menu bar. There is a small dotted line in the area. This is not the case when the "Attach to the tab bar" is checked. There is no dotted line when the tab button area is on the tab bar.

I don't think it is enough of an issue to require more programming I have gotten accustomed to getting my first tab from the file menu or from a right click on a link.

Thanks for your help.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kko
Date: June 03, 2008 05:06AM

Quote
Terry
Generally, as I go through a beta, I change little or nothing from the way it installs itself. As I work my way through each component = be they proxies, favicons, middle click, or whatever, I keep a chart of where I started and what I found. Again, look for yourself - under Tools-Mouse Accelerators there are three choices other than Default. It was easy enough for me to find out how this was set originally. All I had to do was unzip the original .7z file. Cranked up the new 1.5b2 and it was defaulted to Firefox 2.0. Apparently, it was left in that state when it was zipped.

Thanks for your thorough testing, Terry. That's important and helps us a lot. But in this case, well, Firefox 2.0 is simply not my default setting and I can't reproduce that. The pref that stores what mouse accel config is used doesn't exist by default, meaning that the Default configuration is used when a new profile is created. Have you created a new profile? In other words, have you deleted the old profile under %AppData% or have you created a profile.ini for the new installation? Otherwise the Firefox 2.0 setting may be a legacy of your old profile...


Quote
Terry
As to the need for user agents. In the past I have given you pages that show when you use the default for K-M or Seamonkey certain pages won't show. Here's an example: [www6.comcast.net] Since, today, Firefox is ubiquitous, setting the browser to it will get you into a number of sites. Go to that site and try it with the Firefox string and you will get in. Same goes for an IE string. Sure IE won't fool WindowsUpdate, but it will get you into a lot of pages without getting the message that you need to update your browser.

I know that, Terry. But it is a simple fact that not all browsers are technically compatible. You cannot simply use a browser with the UA string of some other browser expecting that this will do any good (Gecko is Gecko, but MSIE and Opera are not). Facing your comment in regard to WindowsUpdate, you seem to know that. But many users don't. When they find a website not working that previously worked in IE, they make K-Meleon identify itself as IE and expect the site working in K-Meleon. This may indeed work in many cases, but in as many other cases (like WindowsUpdate) it does not because K-Meleon fails to run proprietary Microsoft JScript - like any other browser apart from IE. Now, what do users do when a feature is not working as expected? They write bug reports! And then somebody has to spend time on investigating these reports - for nothing and nothing again, finally, since this kind of bugs are no K-Meleon bugs. Such bug reports are a complete waste of time for both the reporters and the investigators. For an individual reporter it's only a couple of minutes. But for the investigators it's much more time, it sums up to hours. Hours that are spent on something totally useless! Zero result.

Well, I cannot blame users for not knowing something, but I feel the need to do something when I'm getting the impression that a certain feature (or choice) is causing more problems than it is able to solve. In this case, less choice is a better choice - an option that doesn't exist doesn't cause trouble.


Quote
Terry
Under the Mouse Accelerators you have three choices other than default. In essence, as far as the middle button goes, default brings up pages into the foreground and the other three choices bring up pages in the background. So, why do you need three choices that do the same thing? Since you are using Ockham's razor to get rid of Agent strings why not use it on the Mouse Accelerators? Call one foreground and one background?

As you can see in the FAQ (well, Opera is new in 1.5 and still missing), these mouse accel configs set more than just one accel. K-Meleon is often used as a supplementary browser (in addition to others). This feature is meant as a help for users who are using (or used) another browser in the first place and who are accustomed to a certain way of opening links with the mouse. This feature will allow them dealing with links in K-Meleon as they are used to that from other browsers.

In the contrary to user agent strings, this feature, as well as most others, doesn't cause us any trouble and more choice is helping more (for now, but that doesn't mean that Ockham's razor won't be applied at a later time). I guess the difference is that users usually don't play around with features when they don't understand their purpose - or they ask how it is used, but they usually don't write bug reports. This is different for user agent strings. Many users have heard about that and think that they know everything about it. In fact, most of them don't and they have wrong expectations. And that's the problem. I don't like to limit your freedom of choice - in fact, I don't do that, you just have to get your own hands dirty. But your freedom of choice is not for free. Others have to pay the bill. The time that I have to spend on updating the user agent strings and on investigating bug reports is lost for other things, lost for real improvements of other features that are more important to most users than user agent strings. At least that's how I see it.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: Terry
Date: June 03, 2008 06:29AM

kko - you make a fine diplomat. Thank you for your hard work.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: Adam Lau
Date: June 03, 2008 12:39PM

Locking/unlocking the toolbar does nothing. Appears to be the same bug as the previous beta. The initial development release of 1.5 does not have this problem.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: cmau
Date: June 03, 2008 01:25PM

There is still a memory leak when there are many tabs open. Right now Windows task manager shows Kmeleon using 44M with 99M Virtual Memory. It's not clear if this is Kmeleon's fault or Gecko's. So it'd be great if in the future there is a release with the 1.9 version of Gecko which supposedly has some of the memory leaks fixed.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ra
Date: June 04, 2008 02:23AM

Thanks everyone involved for the new build!

So far it looks much more stable than beta 1 (which crashed a lot!) for me.

But I'm missing the button in preferences to open the dialog to manage which sites I set to accept cookies forever/session and which I don't. Where is it?? (Privacy plugin is disabled.)

BTW: When will the native, non-xul preferences return?

Edit: Okay, found it, it moved to Tools - Privacy - Permissions. It should be accessible from the Preferences as well, IMO. BTW2: The find algorithm is quite bad in the dialog, you have to know exactly what the server is called to find it (doesn't search with "contains")...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2008 02:26AM by ra.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: bellgamin
Date: June 04, 2008 02:06PM

I am using it & so far it works smooth as silk. Thanks to all who are doing the hard and skilled work on this altogether superb browser.

Aloha,
Bellgamin
Jeremiah 9.23-24 ><)))°>

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kko
Date: June 05, 2008 01:08AM

Update

This update fixes two bugs in the Preferences panel:

1) The control for setting the Tab Bar title is not working correctly
2) The panel is accessing remote locations stored in the preferences system

The latter is security critical. I recommend to download and install this update (extract the archive into your installation directory).

I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ra
Date: June 06, 2008 02:21AM

Has anyone else problems closing the browser with [Ctrl]&[Alt]&[F4] with many tabs or windows open? For me, that doesn't work and afterwards the browser crashes.

BTW: Is Backspace scheduled to return in 1.5 gold to go back one page when you're not in a textbox/form?

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: JujuLand
Date: June 06, 2008 03:23AM

After some test, Ctrl-Alt-F4 doesn't work, but don't crash K-Meleon.

I have tested also with 1.1.5, it doesn't work too.

I never tried this accel before.

A+


Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140105 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/74.0

Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr




Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 07, 2008 09:07AM

Terry,

KKO makes a strong case for a personal decision on how to program a Gecko browser. It is a decision not shared by other Gecko browsers. In Firefox, you can load up User Agent Switcher 0.6.11 and fill the oft-stated need to spoof a website with another browser's id.

Perhaps this FF extension can be adapted for K-Meleon.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: Terry
Date: June 07, 2008 10:27AM

Thanks, ndeborg, didn't know that. Actually, I believe that all Gecko browsers can spoof the id of other browsers by adding the preference name general.useragent.override in about:config and then give the user string of the browser you want to spoof. I've done it to Seamonkey so that it can play videos on MSNBC making the site think it is Firefox.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kevinnn
Date: June 07, 2008 01:48PM

The best browser it is!
Does K-Meleon 1.5Beta2 adopt Gecko engine 1.9?

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: JujuLand
Date: June 07, 2008 03:23PM

No

A+


Mozilla/5.0 (x11; U; Linux x86_64; fr-FR; rv:24.0) Gecko/20140105 Ubuntu/12.04 K-Meleon/74.0

Web: http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
Mail : alain [dot] aupeix [at] wanadoo [dot] fr




Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 07, 2008 10:13PM

Terry,

Yes, the ability to add with about config is a plus; it is the kludge that kko is talking about where those that know how to do this things can (on their own) spoof agent strings. I remember a time when we had a wide variety of agent strings available in edit/preferences, but that was way back when... before version 1.0 came out.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 07, 2008 10:14PM

Alain,

Is that a NO to being able to port the agent string extension over to KM?

Tks,

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: desga2
Date: June 07, 2008 11:14PM

@ ndebord & Terry;

This discussion is meaningless if it is necessary I'll made an extension for who want a higher support of User Agent strings.

@ all, especially kko & Dorian;

Can you check this bug in 1.5beta2?

Thanks.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2008 12:25AM by desga2.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 08, 2008 02:56AM

desag2,

Thanks. Not so meaningless after all, eh?

Such an extension would be greatly appreciated.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: desga2
Date: June 08, 2008 03:40AM

Quote
desga2
Can you check this bug in 1.5beta2?

Please continue this bug discusion here.

Quote
desga2
But i detected other bug in 1.5beta2 when you have cursor in URL bar and press UP or DOWN cursor keys, K-Meleon reload current page instead to move to next or previus URL typed and stored in URL bar history like 1.1.X versions.

Moreover when you press UP or Down keys in URL bar URL in history is loaded, when in before 1.1.X versions only URL is showed in URL bar but isn't loaded until you press enter key.

K-Meleon in Spanish

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kko
Date: June 10, 2008 12:07AM

Quote
ra
Has anyone else problems closing the browser with [Ctrl]&[Alt]&[F4] with many tabs or windows open? For me, that doesn't work and afterwards the browser crashes.

Working fine for me. Might be OS related. Is it only with the accel or also with the menu (File > Exit K-Meleon)?


Quote
ra
BTW: Is Backspace scheduled to return in 1.5 gold to go back one page when you're not in a textbox/form?

Principally yes. If I remember right, there's a problem with Gecko. (Other accels are affected too.)

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kko
Date: June 10, 2008 12:29AM

Quote
desga2
@ ndebord & Terry;

This discussion is meaningless if it is necessary I'll made an extension for who want a higher support of User Agent strings.

Don't feed the troll. This one is somebody who is always seeing problems where there are none. Consequently, nobody can ever solve his problems. You can never satisfy him. You just end up with your psyche or your DNA analyzed. grinning smiley


Quote
desga2
@ all, especially kko & Dorian;

Can you check this bug in 1.5beta2?

I cannot reproduce it.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: desga2
Date: June 10, 2008 02:13AM

I continue with my problem/bug in K-Meleon1.5beta2 (with update1) but with default settings, my actions;
Start K-Meleon.
Clear url bar history (for this test, for avoid strange and rare urls)
Type some urls, for example;
Type url: www.google.com
Type url: www.yahoo.com
Type url: www.wikipedia.org
(to me the result is same if i do in the same or different tabs)
Now i select url bar and try go to previus url typed (in this case yahoo).
I press down key and wikipedia page reloads.
I press up key and wikipedia page reloads.

I'm using Win2000 SP4 and in 1.1.X versions this works fine.

When i have time, i'll do this test in winXP.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2008 02:14AM by desga2.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 10, 2008 04:17AM

@ desga2

I am trying to duplicate your test about the URL bar and the up/down keys. I cleared the URL bar history and typed and opened three items.
Type url: www.google.com
Type url: www.yahoo.com
Type url: www.wikipedia.org
These are the same ones that you used and in the same order. If I open the URL history dropdown then I see them in reverse order from the order that was typed. I think this is what is expected. If I press the down arrow key then wikipedia is highlighted and copied to the URL bar. If I press the down arrow key again, yahoo is highlighted and copied to the URL bar. A third press of down arrow gets me to google. I think that is what is expected.

You said that when you pressed the down key that an entry reloaded. Do you mean that it was copied to the URL bar or did the document load? I only observed that the item was copied to the URL bar.

Note that if I use the page down and page up keys I get completly different results. If I use the page down key the middle item, yahoo, is highlighted and copied to the URL bar. The page up key highlights the top item, wikipedia. After you use these keys once they then begin to skip the middle item and go only to top and bottom of the list.

I am using 1.5beta2 with upgrade on XP home. I hope this information is useful.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: desga2
Date: June 10, 2008 04:50AM

Thanks for your test JamesD, but it's little different to my test, can you repeat, please?

Quote
JamesD
If I open the URL history dropdown then I see them in reverse order from the order that was typed. I think this is what is expected. If I press the down arrow key then wikipedia is highlighted and copied to the URL bar. If I press the down arrow key again, yahoo is highlighted and copied to the URL bar. A third press of down arrow gets me to google. I think that is what is expected.

You said that when you pressed the down key that an entry reloaded. Do you mean that it was copied to the URL bar or did the document load? I only observed that the item was copied to the URL bar.

I don't open url history (down arrow at right), only click in url bar (not url bar history button that display a dropdown list) to put in url bar focus and cursor and then press UP or DOWN cursor keys.

When i press up or down cursor keys page in current tab is reloaded instead show in url bar the url typed next or previus.

Thanks.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2008 07:20AM by desga2.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 10, 2008 06:47AM

@ desga2

I did not understand before. Yes, only the wikipedia will load from either a up or down key. My test this time was to open a new tab. The new tab has about:blank highlighted. I pressed the down key and wikipedia loaded. I had same results for the up key.

Now I am beginning to confuse myself. If I go to google (bottom of list) then go to a page not in the list, when I select the URL bar I go back to google upon pressing either the up or down key. Same for yahoo which is in the middle of the list. It seems that I get the top of the list when I start fresh, but once I go to a site in the list and then go to a site not in the list I get the previously visited site without regard to its place in the list.

I do not usually navigate using this method, so I don't know if this action is right or wrong. Let me know if there is some more testing that I can do.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: desga2
Date: June 10, 2008 07:32AM

@ JamesD:
Thanks for your test, this confirm a bug in url bar history.

@ kko:
Can you confirm this bug now?

K-Meleon in Spanish

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 10, 2008 11:54AM

kko,

Let's see, if I disagree with you about your position that user agent string spoofing is not an important issue for K-Meleon, then I am a troll?

Funny guy.

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2008 11:55AM by ndebord.

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kko
Date: June 10, 2008 10:42PM

Quote
desga2
@ kko:
Can you confirm this bug now?

Yes, there's definitely something wrong. I've added it to the Wiki page.

Do me a favor, desga2, and see whether you can reproduce the first bug listed under "Tab bugs/improvements" (Unintentional duplication of the current tab). I can clearly reproduce it, but Dorian can't...

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: kko
Date: June 10, 2008 10:45PM

Quote
ndebord
kko,

Let's see, if I disagree with you about your position that user agent string spoofing is not an important issue for K-Meleon, then I am a troll?

Funny guy.

Now I'm perplexed! You talk to me? Funny guy. You are making progress - so far, you only talked about me. But, well, I have to admit that I find the latter more interesting. Unless, maybe, you contribute something reasonable to our discussion... (Up to now, you just said that you disagree with me. Is that all? Fine, then it's two out of 1700. I can live with that.)

Re: K-Meleon 1.5Beta2
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 10, 2008 11:25PM

KKO,

Reasonable to our discussion? Well that is an interesting point to raise. I suspect I've contributed some small bit over many years of using K-Meleon, going back to two previous developers before Dorian. One interesting aspect of the small K-Meleon community is the fact that over time there has almost always been two major players: the developer and the developer's assistant which has resulted in widely differing methods of dealing with the K-Meleon community of users: some more, some less appealing than others.

N

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