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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: guenter
Date: June 16, 2014 03:02AM

I use custom portable installs with profile for some odd jobs like banking... Profile manager helps people that have one install but custom profiles for odd jobs.

Quote
tomase13
I don't want to upgrade to 29 because it is a Google Chrome replica, and I actually use Firefox occasionally, but I would if they insist the latest version [or even beta] is used.)

AFAIK Firefox.exe still can be renamed to run more than one version though this causes compatibility tests for the extensions so I also avoid this solution.

I use either of these three if I use Firefox.

There is a 24.6 esr private build by tete009 that starts as a nightly.
http://www1.plala.or.jp/tete009/en-US/software.html
Build with VC 8 and rather fast and stable. Has some interesting patches.

There is a 24.6 Palemoon that has AFAIk the old FF's not Google Chrome's interface.
http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes-ng.shtml

Another Firefox 24 based candidate is Icedragon. It has a Spanish version out of the box. http://download.cnet.com/Comodo-IceDragon/3000-2356_4-75856204.html?part=dl-&tag=lang_es&lang=es
Can have independent DNS service...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2014 03:13AM by guenter.

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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: thomase13
Date: June 17, 2014 10:57PM

I suppose Profile Manager would be useful if I had multiple users using one portable installation.

Thanks for the suggestions!
I don't have VC8 or know how to make custom builds or anything, but PaleMoon looks quite good for my purposes as a secondary browser. I stumbled upon it a few years ago but haven't really checked it out until now. It's actually quite impressive... though not nearly as impressive as K-Meleon of course! :P

The author has written a very good guide to sensible Web browser user interface design and how they are sticking to it instead of moving to the now-trendy "One size fits all" interfaces that are supposed to be equally good for use with a 20" computer monitor, keyboard and mouse, or a smart phone with 3" touch screen.

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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: guenter
Date: June 18, 2014 01:40AM

Quote
thomase13
I suppose Profile Manager would be useful if I had multiple users using one portable installation.

Thanks for the suggestions!
I don't have VC8 or know how to make custom builds or anything, but PaleMoon looks quite good for my purposes as a secondary browser. I stumbled upon it a few years ago but haven't really checked it out until now. It's actually quite impressive... though not nearly as impressive as K-Meleon of course! tongue sticking out smiley

The author has written a very good guide to sensible Web browser user interface design and how they are sticking to it instead of moving to the now-trendy "One size fits all" interfaces that are supposed to be equally good for use with a 20" computer monitor, keyboard and mouse, or a smart phone with 3" touch screen.

The profiles can be used for cutom jobs. I use customized complete installs instead. HDD space has become cheep.

tete009 offers a finished build. VC8 Express by MS is available for free and sufficient. But he uses at least one custom include that he did not publish.
So I did not manage to rebuild his version with VC8 either.

The same here (I agree with Moonchild) though I do only have 15-19' displays.
The current layouts of Firefox and Google Chrome do not suit me. K-Meleon is
one of the last browsers where I can change the interface to my own wishes.

I also do not like their checking and auto updating addons and core. For the addons not anymore since the check for addons compatibility after a browser update consumes time and sometimes deactivates addons I want in this version and not updated ones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2014 01:44AM by guenter.

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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 18, 2014 07:18AM

I have a question about the permissions for Javascript in KM 74 Beta 4. Do they work? I can turn Javascript on and off for the browser, but the block and allow permissions do not override the global setting. How are block and allow supposed to be used?

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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 19, 2014 12:37AM

Quote
JamesD
I have a question about the permissions for Javascript in KM 74 Beta 4. Do they work? I can turn Javascript on and off for the browser, but the block and allow permissions do not override the global setting. How are block and allow supposed to be used?

Just that way.

If javascript is disabled globally, you can't override.

It doesn't work as cookies, where if you set globally to block, still a site specific rule still works.

But you have to note that if you block google.com, you are not blocking the javascript files (.js) called from clients1.google.com (the host that makes suggestions BTW).

Also, comparing to cookies, it doesn't work for domains as wildcard for all subdomains, but for hosts, each different hosts a new rule.

I'm not sure if this last question has been changed. I swear that in the past was domain+subdomains, but I'm not sure.

EDIT: also is needed to mention that CAPS was removed by Mozilla sad smiley

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If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2014 12:39AM by JohnHell.

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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 19, 2014 12:58AM

@JohnHell

It does not seem to work. I have Javascript enabled and I have http://liblearn.osu.edu/tutor/jscript.html in the permission as "blocked". When I go to that site the Javascript runs. I also tried the reverse of this and that "allow" does nothing as you said.

I guess I will go back to capability.policy stuff. That seem to work.

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Re: netscape bookmark plugin bug
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 19, 2014 01:40AM

After a few tests, looks that the javascript embedded in the document can't be blocked. Only javascript resources as .js.

<script>
alert('aaa');
</script>
Can't be blocked

<script type="text/javascript">
alert('aaa');
</script>
Can't be blocked

<script type="text/javascript" src="aaa.js">
</script>
Can be blocked

This explains some behaviors I had in the past too but I didn't pay much attention as most times I just disable javascript globally.

Quote

I guess I will go back to capability.policy stuff. That seem to work.

As I said, don't even bother, they removed it from Gecko.

The first time ever I tried to use it and... I found they removed :/

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=913734#c32
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox/Releases/29/Site_Compatibility#Security

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If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2014 01:45AM by JohnHell.

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Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: thomase13
Date: June 19, 2014 01:49AM

Quote
guenter
The profiles can be used for cutom jobs. I use customized complete installs instead. HDD space has become cheep.
I still don't understand why you would ever need separate installations or profiles for one person, but I guess I don't need that functionality anyway.

Quote
guenter
tete009 offers a finished build. VC8 Express by MS is available for free and sufficient. But he uses at least one custom include that he did not publish.
So I did not manage to rebuild his version with VC8 either.
Thanks for this information! I didn't know any edition of VC was available for free — I'm sure it'll come in handy sometime.

Quote
guenter
The same here (I agree with Moonchild) though I do only have 15-19' displays.
The current layouts of Firefox and Google Chrome do not suit me. K-Meleon is
one of the last browsers where I can change the interface to my own wishes.

Unfortunately, K-Meleon and PaleMoon are the only Web browsers that are actually customizable anymore, AFAIK, at least for Windows!
Quote
guenter
I also do not like their checking and auto updating addons and core. For the addons not anymore since the check for addons compatibility after a browser update consumes time and sometimes deactivates addons I want in this version and not updated ones.
I don't always mind automatic stuff... as long as I have the option to turn it off!

My personal layout rationale is slightly different than theirs, but is very much based upon user interface convention, user experience, affordance, expectation, and efficiency, as theirs is.

To me, this layout is of the almost basic kind: The title bar is at the top (with window managing buttons only!), menu bar below it, the address bar just above the content, and the status bar at the bottom. The only possible "extra" feature here is the toolbar, which always comes just below the menu bar.


This is congruent with how just about all Windows programs look, and identical to Windows Explorer.

In my setup, I have just added some things that make things easier for me:
The links bar, which is really just another tool bar, so it goes beneath the standard one for easy access, and
the tab bar, which I think should be right next to the page if you are using it.
It makes sense especially in other browsers where they actually look like tabs in a binder or file folders. K-Meleon still has the "layers" look, which is fine!
I do see the argument some people make about the tab bar being above the address bar, as the address changes for every tab, which does make sense, but as the PaleMoon page says, most people access the tab bar more frequently than the Address bar, so the other way makes more sense from a functional standpoint. But of course that would differ depending on your particular browsing habits.



In simpler terms, from most minimalistic to fully-featured:
  1. Title bar, Menu Bar, Address Bar, Status bar, (and scroll bar if necessary)
  2. Standard toolbar
  3. Additional toolbars such as Favorites bar, Privacy Bar, etc.
  4. Tab bar
That's my opinion on sensible design and defaults anyhow.
The decision is up to Dorian of course, and I will respect whichever he chooses.

P.S.
Do you think it is worth my while to redo the error reporting for missing page border with Firefox 29? Do you think they are so much more likely to consider it done with the very latest version, or will they probably just ignore it either way in their quest to become a perfect Google Chrome replica?

P.P.S.
As you can see in the second picture, I did manage to fix the stray divider issue. I just had to hide and show the throbber for it to be fixed.

P.P.P.S.
Wow, for anyone who wants a good laugh (and maybe a little cry) this is actually hilarious (but sad too)
http://people.mozilla.org/~madhava/FDV/

Thanks!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2014 01:48AM by thomase13.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 19, 2014 06:56AM

Quote
JohnHell
As I said, don't even bother, they removed it from Gecko.

Well, there goes easy, safe browsing.

Thanks for the update. I had wondered what was wrong because of all the "stuff" that was showing up while browsing. I am busy going through my favorites and renaming some with [ JS_Req ] in the name.

Should the "Permissions" button be removed from the Javascript page in preferences?

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 19, 2014 09:17AM

I won't remove it, in case is a bug, maybe Dorian can fix the permission if it is a problem with K-meleon and not Gecko.

Either way, permissions are helpful, even they block only external .js resources.

What intrigues me is why there is a policymanager extension updated to km74 (actually 1.8 and above) at http://kmext.sourceforge.net/km74/

You could try just in case works as NoScript, the recomendation from Mozilla. Policies set manually, didn't work for me :-?

-----------------------------
If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time


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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 19, 2014 11:24PM

Quote
JohnHell
What intrigues me is why there is a policymanager extension updated to km74 (actually 1.8 and above) at http://kmext.sourceforge.net/km74/

You could try just in case works as NoScript, the recomendation from Mozilla. Policies set manually, didn't work for me :-?

I decided to test it today along with the sqlite manager (thanks to who ported it but it had a bug) and that extension work. So, looks like manually creating policies doesn't work but with this extension works.

But I found that the capability entries in prefs.js can't be checked inside the browser through about:config. Are stored in the file, but only visible through the extension :-? Strange.

Anyway, works JamesD.

-----------------------------
If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time


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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 20, 2014 12:52AM

Quote
JohnHell
But I found that the capability entries in prefs.js can't be checked inside the browser through about:config. Are stored in the file, but only visible through the extension :-? Strange.

Strange is right. I will give this extension a try and see how it does. Are you sure that they are in "prefs.js"? How does this line up with the notes that you had before when the capability stuff was removed from Gecko?

I will report back if I can come to an understanding of this.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 20, 2014 02:47AM

@ JohnHell

I cannot seem to get the policymanager extension to run. Do I not also need some statement in chrome.manifest which points to the manifest in extensions? It was not noted in the directions included.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 20, 2014 06:12AM

Quote
JamesD
Quote
JohnHell
But I found that the capability entries in prefs.js can't be checked inside the browser through about:config. Are stored in the file, but only visible through the extension :-? Strange.

Strange is right. I will give this extension a try and see how it does. Are you sure that they are in "prefs.js"?

Yes, the prefs.js file holds the user_pref("capability.policy.whatever... (this was directly copied from prefs.js except the word whatever...) but can't be viewed in about:config :-?


Quote
JamesD
How does this line up with the notes that you had before when the capability stuff was removed from Gecko?

I will report back if I can come to an understanding of this.

I don't know. As I said, manually adding them wasn't working, I searched, and finally found that at mozilla pages.

I don't kwnow how it works.

Quote
JamesD
@ JohnHell

I cannot seem to get the policymanager extension to run. Do I not also need some statement in chrome.manifest which points to the manifest in extensions? It was not noted in the directions included.

What I did was create a folder without spaces named policymanager in Extensions root folder, than, in extension.manifest, add the entry "manifest policymanager/chrome.manifest" without quotes, because I renamed policymanager.manifest to chrome.manifest, just to equal to others, but there is no need to do that.

And then, in Tools menu, privacy, the last option.


-----------------------------
If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time


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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: chinarobin
Date: June 20, 2014 07:23AM

@ JohnHell

adblockplus extension in http://kmext.sourceforge.net/km74/ does not work,even i follow the instructions,is that ok for you?

thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 07:25AM by chinarobin.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 20, 2014 09:45PM

Quote
chinarobin
@ JohnHell

adblockplus extension in http://kmext.sourceforge.net/km74/ does not work,even i follow the instructions,is that ok for you?

thanks!

I don't use adblockplus because I prefer to manually use userContent.css and hosts to block what annoies me, but I gave a try just right now and worked correctly on one site I tested.

I only changed the extraction of adblockplus.js that I placed in \defaults\pref, as other extensions, instead browser\defaults\preferences.

And the skin bmp file that I placed in my own skin (I don't use the default), that by the way, doesn't exist a default folder skin, so check that too.

I also was able to update as you can see here:




By the way, too, adblockplus, for a pentium 4 at 2.8Ghz is a hog of CPU and memory resources.

-----------------------------
If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 09:47PM by JohnHell.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 21, 2014 06:43AM

Quote
JohnHell

Quote
JamesD
@ JohnHell

I cannot seem to get the policymanager extension to run. Do I not also need some statement in chrome.manifest which points to the manifest in extensions? It was not noted in the directions included.


What I did was create a folder without spaces named policymanager in Extensions root folder, than, in extension.manifest, add the entry "manifest policymanager/chrome.manifest" without quotes, because I renamed policymanager.manifest to chrome.manifest, just to equal to others, but there is no need to do that.

I needed this line in root/chrome.manifest.
manifest extensions/policymanager.manifest


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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: chinarobin
Date: June 21, 2014 07:53AM

Quote
JohnHell
Quote
chinarobin
@ JohnHell

adblockplus extension in http://kmext.sourceforge.net/km74/ does not work,even i follow the instructions,is that ok for you?

thanks!

I don't use adblockplus because I prefer to manually use userContent.css and hosts to block what annoies me, but I gave a try just right now and worked correctly on one site I tested.

I only changed the extraction of adblockplus.js that I placed in \defaults\pref, as other extensions, instead browser\defaults\preferences.

And the skin bmp file that I placed in my own skin (I don't use the default), that by the way, doesn't exist a default folder skin, so check that too.

I also was able to update as you can see here:




By the way, too, adblockplus, for a pentium 4 at 2.8Ghz is a hog of CPU and memory resources.

the icon just show up, but the subscripion button does not work as you mentioned in the photo above, strange,:-(.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: KMfan2
Date: June 21, 2014 11:38AM

Quote
chinarobin
the icon just show up, but the subscripion button does not work as you mentioned in the photo above, strange,:-(.

same here. when i click subscription option, nothing happened. more then that i do not have "\defaults\pref" folder nowere (even in older KM releases).

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Re: K-Meleon 74 Beta 4
Posted by: Dorian
Date: June 21, 2014 05:01PM

Quote
vincent
bookmarks plugin doesn't like the bookmarks.html file. It will create a file with name "E" all over the place

Changing the user_pref doesn't do anything. After making the change with K-meleon closed, after the program starts, it will change the setting to "\\":

user_pref("kmeleon.plugins.bookmarks.bookmarkFile", "\\");

If you have unicode characters in the folder name, this is fixed for next release

Quote
thomase13
Is there a simple option for me to change this myself, or should I just wait for it to be changed in the next release?

In the preference, privacy and security -> accept cookie.
I don't think I'll change it. K-Meleon worked with this option for 10 years and I've already made a concession for google.

Quote
thomase13
Dorian: would you recommend that everyone update to this version?
Thanks!

Obviously not. Unless it works for you, but there are regressions like the one Georges reported.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2014 05:12PM by Dorian.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: chinarobin
Date: June 21, 2014 06:46PM

Quote
KMfan2
Quote
chinarobin
the icon just show up, but the subscripion button does not work as you mentioned in the photo above, strange,:-(.

same here. when i click subscription option, nothing happened. more then that i do not have "\defaults\pref" folder nowere (even in older KM releases).

i create pref folder, but in vain, it didn't work.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 21, 2014 07:05PM

Dorian,
I cannot create new proxy config through menu ('save' button doesn't work) in 74b4.

Is it just my personal install glitch or the bug?

(In the updated build with 30th engine all works!)


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74 for test and feedback! Get it there!


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Re: K-Meleon 74 Beta 4
Posted by: adodupan
Date: June 21, 2014 07:21PM

Dorian, can you upload last beta3up1 and beta3up2.
EDIT: to cvs
Also, guys can you move your chat out of here? In general probably?

Regards



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2014 09:16PM by adodupan.

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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: Chanson Yu
Date: June 21, 2014 07:32PM

Quote
chinarobin
Quote
KMfan2
Quote
chinarobin
the icon just show up, but the subscripion button does not work as you mentioned in the photo above, strange,:-(.

same here. when i click subscription option, nothing happened. more then that i do not have "\defaults\pref" folder nowere (even in older KM releases).

i create pref folder, but in vain, it didn't work.

Try this one! Extract to the K-Meleon ROOT foler directly!
But really occupy too much computer resources,and slow down the loading speed of web pages!!!



__________________________________________________
K-Meleon zh-CN locale
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1o6NoHfG

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About adblocking tools
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 21, 2014 08:06PM

Well. While we are waiting for naruman's magic about new ABP - are here any capable javascripter? drool smiley

I found lightweight tool for simple adblocking (without any options) made as FF-addon: Bluhell Firewall

It contains 1 js-file which makes ALL job, some icons for toolbar and blockpage-html.

I wonder how to adapt this for KM right way? I can create standard adaptive kmm from specimen and make working button but I don't know how to call functions (and what functions) from that js.

Could anyone help me (and all of us) to get this thing working in KM?


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74 for test and feedback! Get it there!


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Re: K-Meleon 74 Beta 4
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 21, 2014 09:56PM

Quote
adodupan
Dorian, can you upload last beta3up1 and beta3up2.
EDIT: to cvs
Also, guys can you move your chat out of here? In general probably?

Regards

Sorry, adodupan, there were initially started as problems with extension not working in K-meleon 74.

Guenter, if you can split these posts about extensions, do it.

@chinarobin, @kmfan2

Did you add to the extensions folder extensions.manifest file the line "manifest adblockplus/chrome.manifest"? It happened to jamesD with policymanager too. Also, check the error console for messages. If it says it can load whaever.xul, is the mistake I just mentioned.

If you need further help go to development o general forum, as adodupan sugested.

Sorry who we bothered.

-----------------------------
If I'm required and I don't reply in a long time


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Re: Sensible Browser Design
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 21, 2014 11:27PM

Quote
JamesD
I needed this line in root/chrome.manifest.
manifest extensions/policymanager.manifest

James, Johnhell and all comrades - the truth is that we need add to root\chrome.manifest one line:
manifest extensions/Extensions.manifest
to get ALL extensions from rootfolder\extensions working!


I had PolicyManager, ExEx Permissions, Cookies Manager all 'broken' and JamesD gave me the right hint.


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74 for test and feedback! Get it there!



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2014 12:41AM by rodocop.

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Session restore problem
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 21, 2014 11:49PM

The next problem found is that 'previous session' gets broken frequently - restarting KM opens only one (last) tab from that session.


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74 for test and feedback! Get it there!


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Re: Session restore problem
Posted by: chinarobin
Date: June 22, 2014 08:54AM

@Chanson Yu
ok,now, but quite slow as you said, thanks.

@JohnHell
thanks!

@adodupan
it's hard to say that it's the bug caused by km74 or bug belong to adblock plus extension since both are not stable for now. So, i dont think it is quite unsuitble to disscuss(not chat) it here, that's it.

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Re: Session restore problem
Posted by: KMfan2
Date: June 22, 2014 12:05PM

Quote
chinarobin
@Chanson Yu
ok,now, but quite slow as you said, thanks.

@adodupan
it's hard to say that it's the bug caused by km74 or bug belong to adblock plus extension since both are not stable for now. So, i dont think it is quite unsuitble to disscuss(not chat) it here, that's it.

I've managed to get it work, but it is imposible to use it ! Something is got to change ! It works fine in 1.7 release, but that release it outdated, some sites do not work as good!

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