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Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: simpleinventor
Date: July 10, 2005 12:51AM

Ok, I use K-meleon as my main browser, but the bookmarking sucks! I hate to say it, but IE has a better bookmarking system. But, IE also is missing a lot of features. So here's my idea. There is this pretty cool (unsupported) program called Visual Marks ( Visual Marks at snapfile and Visual Marks homepage). The things I like about it that you can color code links, it integrates into IE, works with netscape, has a basic search function and takes snapshots of the website (really cool). What I don't like is that it doesn't have a integration for K-meleon, doesn't search for dead-links like it says it does (Turbo favorites checker does the job and is less then 100kb Turbo Favorits Checker), and the search really sucks, it should make a new window with only the results or at least scroll like the ctrl+f function does. Also, I really like the integrated sidebar of IE. I was thinking there might be some way to either incorporate Visual Marks or even better yet, write a clone that has way better features. I don't know how the other builds deal with bookmarks, since I use the standard. Anyway, keep up the good work people!

Email: simpleinventor@gmail.com

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: guenter
Date: July 10, 2005 02:54AM

i am not understanding at all -

why do You not activate Favorites plugin and use MSIE Favorites?

Sidebar? seems to be planned for version 1.0
- but who knows - whether we will ever have a k-m 1.0.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: simpleinventor
Date: July 10, 2005 07:36AM

I do, but it just doesn't have all the functionality I would like to see in this program

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Shockwaveworld.com
Date: July 12, 2005 09:40AM

I love the bookmarking, I can have the same bookmarks in IE and K-Mellon! Thats great.!

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: July 15, 2005 03:23AM

The IE plugin should not keep the favorites store in Kmeleon instead it should only scroll though the favorites in stead of loading them all into Kmeleon so the bookmark limit for IE Favorites Plugin would be meaning less because they are not stored in Kmeleon. So the limit for number of Favorites for the Plugin would never be reached.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: themoose
Date: August 11, 2005 05:03PM

how about a choice to import bookmarks from firefox, netscape, and IE on install?

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: kko
Date: August 11, 2005 08:01PM

I really don't understand what you guys are complaining about!
K-Meleon has the most flexible bookmark management I've ever seen! It does not import other browser's bookmarks, it does share other browser's bookmarks!

@simpleinventor: I agree that the bookmarks/favorites/hotlist plugins (and K-Meleon as a whole) do lack the one or the other functionality. But it should be clear that nobody will ever be able to create a browser that is like MSIE, like Firefox and like what the hell at the same time! What is usefull to you, may be redundant to others. And vice versa...

@George: The IE plugin should not keep the favorites store in Kmeleon instead it should only scroll though the favorites in stead of loading them all into Kmeleon
That IS exactly what K-Meleon does! What limit for number of Favorites are you talking about?

@themoose: K-Meleon will embed your IE Favorites automatically when you activate the IE Favorites plugin. It is not possible to embed Netscape style bookmarks automatically because there is no standardized way to locate them! Is it really THAT difficult to tell K-Meleon where your Firefox' bookmarks.html is located?
PS: Nice work have you done at spreadkmeleon.com, congrats!

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: themoose
Date: August 12, 2005 12:42AM

@kko: remember, a lot of ppl installing k-meleon will be n00bs, so a simple 'import' option would be good

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Simple Inventor
Date: August 12, 2005 02:21AM

@kko:

I have to respectfully disagree. While naturally there are certain *extra* features people would like in K Meleon, folders in a bookmarker is considered a basic feature (I think folders have been around since the early 90's!) To end off, I think having ALL the features is what makes K Meleon so great: extensibility. I mean, make it a plugin, and ppl can choose to not install it or not even download it. K Meleon is just cool like that, ;)

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: kko
Date: August 12, 2005 03:40AM

First, I have to admit my ignorance.

I've read some of George's earlier postings in the meantime. The number of bookmarks, that K-Meleon is able to handle, is indeed limited (see Bug 605). I didn't know that. And I couldn't imagine that several thousands of bookmarks could be of any use to anybody. Please forgive me my ignorance!

Second, I have to clarify a few things that have propably been misunderstood.

@themoose: Of course, you are right. We all have been n00bs once. What I wanted to say is, that before you are able to 'import' a file or a folder, you first have to know where it is located. It doesn't make any difference, whether you want to 'import' manually or automatically. As far as IE's favorites folder is concerned, things are pretty easy. Its location is stored in the registry and there can be only one per user account. As far as netscape style profiles/bookmarks are concerned, things aren't as easy. And IMHO, an automatism that is failing in every second case, can't be really helpfull and is not worth the effort (at this state of the project).

@Simple Inventor: You do not have to respectfully disagree! The folder support in bookmarks plugins is one of those lacking functionalities that I have been talking about. This feature is a 'must have' and I am sure that this is on the 'to do' list for K-Meleon 1.0. As far as K-Meleon's extensibility is concerned, we share the same opinion. Since I have started to follow discussions on this forum , I have read a lot of really interesting ideas for plugins. The only question is, who will be coding all these plugins. You? Any kind of contribution is welcome!

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Simple Inventor
Date: August 12, 2005 04:36AM

@kko:

Funny you should mention that. I believe I have come up with a temp. bookmark fix until K Meleon 1.0 comes out, but I want to work with an experienced K Meleon plugin coder. Check out my post: Plugin Coder Required.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: kko
Date: August 12, 2005 03:27PM

@Simple Inventor: I tried to follow your thoughts to Double Vision. Now I have some fuzzy imagination of what you want to do. You are looking for an experienced kplugin coder? That must be a very rare species. I wish you good luck!

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: August 14, 2005 06:48AM

Having an unlimited number bookmarks for the Netscape Bookmark Plugin is necessary because Netscape 4.8 and above have an unlimited number of bookmarks. For example, A Netscape 4.8 User Profile that I have over 3 years so it has more Kmeleon Netscape Bookmark Plugin and some people import old bookmarks into their new Netscape Profiles so having an unlimited number of bookmarks for Kmeleon Netscape Bookmarks Plugin is necessary becuase most people do not how many bookmarks are stored in a Netscape Profile so copying them to Kmeleon may not work if their are more than the Kmleon Netscape Bookmark Plugin limit.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: August 27, 2005 11:25AM

Some people think that a limit of 5000 bookmarks is all we need. Is wrong becuase it is like what Bill Gates claimed that 640K should be enough memory for everyone. And we know right he was. Not. Because all computers have a more than 640K of memory, which increases becuase technology improved that needed more memory and everytime microsoft updates windows it requires more memory becuase they make windows more complicated than it needs to be and to keep memory manufacturers happy becuase they sell more and more ram which increases their profits.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Fred
Date: August 27, 2005 12:04PM

I have about 6500 bookmarks and K-Meleon is still working with them.
So I don't know why 5000 should be the limit.
The bookmarks plugin is possibly not the same anymore as in 2003,
when the bug was posted.

Fred

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: August 28, 2005 06:16AM

Even, so they may have slightly increased the bookmark limit. However, when I change the location of my bookmark file to my Netscape 4.8 Profile or copy the Netscape Bookmark 4.8 Bookmark file into Kmeleon, all of my toolbars dissapear and I cannot change the my Kmeleon setting such as changing the location Kmeleon Bookmark file back to Kmeleon and everything else. If I copy my Netscape 4.8 Bookmark file into Kmeleon the only get Kmeleon to work correctly again is to many delete the Netscape 4.8 Bookmark file from my Kmeleon Profile all of Toolbars reappear including the Bookmark Toolbar. My Netscape 4.8 User Profile was created in early 2000. Also, Mozilla can handle the size of my bookmark file and I believe that Firefox can handle the size of my Bookmark file. So, my point is still prove true for a bookmark plugin should not have a size limit. When you release that Netscape 4.8 - 8, Mozilla, and Firefox as far as I know do not have a bookmark size limit. So the Kmeleon Bookmark Plugin Size Limitation should be changed the remove the size limitation that the other three browsers do not seem to have.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: September 02, 2005 07:33PM

A sidebar in Kmeleon in 1.0 is not a great idea. Becuase one of my reasons for using Kmeleon is that is doesn't have a sidebar and thats why do not use mozilla for my browser is that it has sidebars. I also do like the integrated sidebar in IE and a sidebar is basically a feature copied from from IE and it is one of Microsoft most annoying ideas. Sidebars in Mozilla is even more annoying.. If Kmeleon 1.0 uses a sidebar for the bookmarking plugin most likely I will uninstall Kmeleon and say "what a waste of my time". Then would use Netscape Communicator 4.8 instead because I believe bookmarking works better than IE. Netscape 4.8 bookmarking hovers above the webpage leaving the the same size instead of moving the webpage over to the right making it smaller which is annoying when I am also trying the look a webpage while viewing using bookmarks. The way Netscape and the current Kmeleon and below exit the bookmark without having click "X" to close them is better and all you have to do is move the mouse away the the bookmarks and it instantly disappears which is more convient.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: jsnj
Date: September 03, 2005 04:12AM

I doubt this will please you George since nothing really ever seems to please you, but just in case:

http://optimoz.mozdev.org/tweaks/

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: September 04, 2005 08:01PM

If Kmeleon 1.0 has to have sidebars it should a plugin instead integrated into Kmeleon without having any away to remove it, Just like how IE, Mozilla, and Netscape 6 and above has no way to remove them. A plugin would allow anyone, who does not like sidebars, away to remove them if they choose to do so. This would allow bookmarks without sidebars if they do not want sidebars.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Fred
Date: September 04, 2005 08:31PM

As we will see in the upcoming version of Beta 5, you can
of course choose, not to have a visible sidebar, the same way as
you can choose, which of the toolbars you want to be visible by
simply checking or unchecking them in the menu View-->Toolbars.
Ther will be a menu View-->Sidebars to enable or disable sidebars.
You can certainly keep the hovering bookmarks, the same way as
you have them now, the sidebar will only be an additional feature
for people who like them.
Regards
Fred

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: September 04, 2005 09:17PM

I do not want to want to use that method of preventing sidebars becuase it is flawed. In Netscape and Mozilla you have select many preferences to prevent it from displaying at all. When Click Search and History it pops up again. So you have to search every option that uses sidebars to prevent them from displaying. This would be annoying with bookmarks and other things

The major reason I do not like the bookmark and favorite plugins is that they contain a flaw the crashes Kmeleon toolbar and taskbars. This flaw is when you have to many bookmarks or favorites it crashes every taskbar and toolbars. This prevents you from making any changes to the browser options with the taskbar, typing internet adresses, accessing bookmark, and making changes to bookmarks. IE 5.0, mozilla, and Netscape 4.8-8 do not contain this flaw for bookmarks and favorites, becuase the developers of those browsers realized that the numbers of bookmarks and favorites will get larger and larger when you use the browsers. If their was a bookmark/favorite limit on IE, Mozilla, and Netscape it would cause crashing just like it does with Kmeleon.

A limit on bookmarks would prevent Kmeleon from accessing the Netscape and Mozilla bookmarks if the number of bookmarks is more than number the that the Kmeleon Bookmark Plugin supports. In my opinion one of the reasons for having a bookmarks is that you can change the bookmark location to the location of Mozilla or Netscape Bookmark file. If you change the position Kmeleon bookmarks files to mozilla and Netscape or copy those bookmarks files into Kmeleon when thier are to many of them for the Kmeleon Netscape Bookmark Plugin it would cause Kmeleon toolbars and taskbars to crash.

When their are not to many bookmarks or favorites the Kmeleon Netscape Bookmark Plugin does not cause Kmeleon toolbars and taskbars to crash with Kmeleon, Mozilla, and Netscape bookmarks. The IE Favorite Plugin does cause toolbars and taskbars to crash when IE does not exceed the IE Favorite Plugin limit on the number of Favorites allowed by Kmeleon with its plugin. Removing the size limitation on those plugins would greatly improve Kmelon Bookmarking.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Simple Inventor
Date: September 07, 2005 12:40AM

Hao's CCF Beta 5 has a sidebar!!! And favicons!!! I can't wait for nested folder support! I really think any one of the current builds should be a an official build.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Jake
Date: September 09, 2005 11:30PM

I find K's bookmarking to be fantastically easy to use. Maybe because I don't import or export anything. Once a week I just paste my current Opera adr file into K, and ta-da! the same exact bookmarks, exactly as laid out in Opera.

You can't get simplier than that. Drag and past.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: September 16, 2005 09:19AM

Drag and paste crashes K-Meleon toolbars and taskbars when opera lists and netscape bookmarks exceed the limit of the number bookmark and opera lists that the K-meleon Plugins allow. So It only Simple when you do not have to many bookmarks and opera lists. For example, I found this when changed by netscape bookmark plugin bookmark file location to mozilla or Netscape 4.8-8.0 or copy/pasted thr boomarks from Mozilla and Netscape into my K-meleon Profile. It crashed almost every toolbar and taskbar but the "Main Bar" so could access my bookmarks, Mail, Search, Type Internet Addresses, use the "Go Button", and "Menu Bar". Without the "Menu Bar", I could not change the bookmark location or making any changes to K-meleon setting including Preferences, Privacy, Tools Options and others. So I could not fix the problem, until I deleted the K-meleon Bookmark file, copy a smaller bookmark file into my K-meleon profile, or changed my bookmark location in prefs.js to a bookmark file that smaller than the bookmark limit of the Netscape Bookmark Plugin Limit that prevents the bookmark file from exceeding a certain number of bookmarks. Exceeding that limit causes problems with the K-meleon Browser.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: kko
Date: September 16, 2005 11:22PM

@George: You like to repeat yourself, don't you? This is becoming slightly boring. Don't you know anything new?

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: September 17, 2005 05:44AM

I was something new becuase the previous post said drag and pase works fine for bookmarks. I showing them that drag and pastes does not allways work fine. And I told them what happened when drag and paste did work right under certain conditions.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: warofwrath
Date: November 16, 2005 02:51PM

Here's an idea: why not beef-up Aggreg8 (I understand that it already needs improvement) for better integration with del.icio.us bookmarks (similar to firefox's LiveBookmark)? I have added both the del.icio.us macros and search feature to my kmeleon and frankly love the ability to have my bookmarks out there and everywhere. Obviously though, not everyone is keen on social bookmarking and so even if possible, this solution wouldn't cover all the bases.
If I sound like a total n00b, please forgive me. I switched to kmeleon from firefox just a month ago (just lovin' the slick customization).

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: bst82551
Date: November 17, 2005 08:27AM

This sounds like a good idea, actually. It sounds like you're asking for stronger integration with aggreg8 and k-meleon. I think this could be good, especially considering the current direction the web is taking.

Brian

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: Anonymous
Date: January 10, 2006 10:29PM

Sorry to be replying to such an old post, but I had some relevant points I wanted to add

What would be most excellent is a sort of "dynamic folders" plugin as far as the bookmarks are concerned. Basically, when you bookmark something, it would come up with a list of 'folders' (or you'd be able to make your own) and you can just check off which folders a bookmark should belong to. It's "dynamic" because the folders are actually not physical folders, sort of like the new Vista filesystem is going to be, the folders are basically on-demand search results for a particular tag in a bookmark. For example, if you come upon a new link, you'd click on add bookmark, and add the tags you want to be associated with that bookmark, ie, "Articles", "Downloads", etc. It seems pretty complicated, however, and I understand that with the present number of developers it may not be justifiable to try implementing such features. Hopefully you guys will consider it for future releases.

Oh, one more thing, which should be simpler: Firefox has the ability to open a bookmark in a new tab if you middle click on it (with the scroll wheel), is there any way to do this with KMeleon?

PS: I'm not quite using KMeleon, but KMeleon CCF. However, without your excellent work on this browser, CCF would not have been possible, so thank you, you made my K6-2 533 box be able to browse the web with speed =)

Thanks for reading!

Oh, and @ George: I've seen your NUMEROUS threads mentioning Netscape 4.8, and frankly it gets quite boring. If you so highly applaud that browser, why don't you just go use that, and bother THOSE developers? If they're really good ideas, then I'm sure Netscape would appreciate them, and have the manpower to get them implemented.

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Re: Bookmarking on K-meleon: it sucks!
Posted by: George
Date: January 11, 2006 05:20AM

If you were really smart you would know that I am not just talking about Netscape, I am talking Netscape Communicator 4.8, Netscape 6-8, any version of Mozilla, and Firefox Bookmarks can not be imported in Kmeleon without some problems unless they are contained in an small bookmark file and do not have to many bookmarks.

The bookmarks from Netscape, Mozilla, and Firefox can be copied into each other interchangedly, can be imported without any problems whatsoever, and the bookmark folder address can be changed between those three browsers so they can use the same bookmark file, However, Kmeleon crashs when you change the location of the bookmark to Netscape, Mozilla, and Firefox locations.

Your the vista file system idea for Kmeleon it worthless becuase Vista doesn't have a file system becuase all the files and folders are stored on the hard drive they stored in a file that works like database in stead of a file system. Which makes any virus could infected every file stored in Vista.

Also Kmeleon uses a character or byte that identifies it as bookmark folder. Using Vista file system is like storing all files in the components folder in a called components.dll which would make programming and updating the GRE a nightmare for developers. Dynamic Folders would make Kmeleon to complex and cause numerous problems. It would be simpler to make bookmark plugin move a more than one bookmark at time. Netscape, Mozilla, and Firefox can select a number of bookmarks so you can move and copy them to a folder or place that you decide. Also, eliminating the size bug for the kmeleon to have an unlimited number of bookmarks would fix the import bug. Netscape, Mozilla, and Firefox do not have the size bug because they do not have the a on the number of bookmarks that can be stored in a bookmark file.

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