Improvement requests :  K-Meleon Forum
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Needs better layers support
Posted by: R. Cain
Date: August 23, 2000 12:27AM

I d-loaded and tested the K-meleon browser and though it did ok on standard table based pages, it totally got fuxored on layer stacks and loading layers (layers that load external pages into themselves)

I don't know if this board allows HTML or not, so I'll try to post a pic and I'll also provide a link...

IMG1: K-meleon getting munched by layers:

<IMG SRC=">;

LINK: <a href=">; click here </a>

here's pics from IE5.5 and Netscape 4.72:
<a href="">Mozilla</a>;

<a href="">IE5.5</a>;

A big high-five though for getting in scrolling layers support...
I've been waiting patiently for that feature in a Mozilla based browser.

Keep it up guys, looks good so far.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Posted by: DaRk SToRaGe
Date: August 23, 2000 04:08AM

Since this is based on Mozilla, you will have to wait until Mozilla supports it.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Posted by: R. Cain
Date: August 23, 2000 06:52AM

last I checked, Mozilla handled stacked layers no prob
(ie: 2 or more layers on top of another)
and the Loading Layer function I used was fine by Mozilla.

Scroll Layers however were not and are not currently handled by Mozilla.
But, I did notice that K-meleon CAN handle scroll layers.
...Just not stacked layers or loading layers

I wouldn't have made this post if the browser behaved like Mozilla
It doesn't and that's why I think this is an issue to be addressed.
Tables are fine for text based sites, but for graphical based sites,
I use layers more than anything.

Fact is, K-meleon blows goats when it comes to layers.
And I'm contemplating adding some code to the scripts to create a
K-meleon and other weak browser based version of the site.

Here, once again for your review:

The pic of K-meleon muching up layers and screwing up the page:

Same page being rendered correctly by Netscape 4.72:

...And Mozilla doesn't handle Layers

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RE: Needs better layers support
Posted by: R. Cain
Date: August 23, 2000 07:00AM

Oh... and while I'm busy bitching away...

go here:

check it out with Netscape and K-meleon back to back
watch in disdain as K-meleon garbles up the page
ignoring the CSS command for NO SCROLLING
...see the COOKIE_MONSTER tag it displays
which somehow comes from a 'web bug' that is linked to my cookie_monster.cgi
script with a 1x1 px img tag.
..oh, and it can't do the load layer on the right hand side of the page,
which Netscape can.

Some pretty annoying flaws if I do say so myself.

Like I said before, I think you guys are doing
a great job by making a browser
just needs quite a bit more work.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Date: August 23, 2000 07:43PM


I think there's a misunderstanding here:

Mozilla != Netscape 4.x!!!!

Mozilla is the open source effort from which Netscape 6.0 will be derived and has nothing in common with the old Netscape 4.x codebase. K-Meleon also uses the new codebase, so it also has nothing to do with Netscape 4.x.
You can find more informationm about this at

BTW: If you mean the <LAYER>-Tag by saying layer-support, then yes, Mozilla, K-Meleon, and Netscape 6 won't support it (just like IE), because it's not in the HTML standard. <DIV>-tags however are fully supported, stackable and scrollable, probably even more so than in IE.

I took a quick look at and it could be possible that the browser sniffer doesn't recognize Mozilla properly, and creates HTML designed for Netscape 4.x or IE.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Posted by: R. Cain
Date: August 24, 2000 02:30AM

Yes, the Mozilla of NS 4x is not that of the ever delayed NS 6.0
(does it really deserve to skip a full gen cycle?)

And when I say layers I mean:
<DIV ID="layer">

They are called layers... and I can see where you'd get confused with
<layer> tags.

If you looked at the source on the page, you'd see that I used <DIV> tags all the way through it, that is supported by HTML4.0 the standard all browsers should implement within their source.

Look, you people can try to skirt the issue as much as possible,
but this is a bit of a drawback, and what about the lack of CSS?
I mean, so far, K-meleon looks like it only truly supports HTML3.0
....kinda extreme, but without full support of <DIV> and CSS, I don't know how else to word it.
And I felt this was an issue worth getting out to the developers.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Posted by: Ben Efros
Date: August 24, 2000 04:51AM

I believe, although I haven't had a chance to scan the source, that K-meleon uses the mozilla code to handle CSS. Now if that is true, you should not be reporting the problems here unless they are not happening in milestone 17 of mozilla. If they are happening in the milestones, report the bugs to mozilla coders nd not here.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Date: August 24, 2000 10:49PM


I really want Mozilla/NS6/K-Meleon to succeed, so I'll take a look at the page and perhaps file a bug report at if I can find the problem.
Mozilla usually handles DIVs very well in all flavours.

In the meantime, you can take a look at where the CSS-support of every major browser is shown. You'll see that Mozilla is currently the clear winner, although there are still bugs, of course.

If I file a bug or find a bug associated with the problem you describe, I could send you an e-mail with the Bugnr. so you can watch the progress while the bug is being fixed.

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RE: Needs better layers support
Date: August 24, 2000 11:04PM


Like I stated in a previous message, the problem is indeed related to false browser sniffing.

The page checks if the browser has support for either

document.layers (for NS 4.x support)


document.all (for IE support)

Mozilla uses neither of these Dynamic Object Models (DOM) but uses the standard-conforming W3C-model instead (IE5 supports this, too)
You can see the specifications at
IIRC, there's a quite easy workaround to let most pages, which work for IE4.x, work in Mozilla. You simply have to map the function getElementByID() to the document.all-object via JavaScript. I don't know the exact syntax, but if you have some JavaScript experience, it's probably not very hard.

Please note that the absolute positioning of the DIV-tags worked properly, only the content wasn't visible due to the problem with the DOM.

Feel free to email me if you have further questions

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