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The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Date: November 03, 2008 12:22AM

A friend 'gifted' me with an old crashed down Pentium 2 computer (266MHz). After tinkering A LOT with it and adding it some old spare memory (384MB), I've managed to make it work again.

After even more time (2 weeks) looking for drivers and updates, I've have performed a clean install of Windows 95 (in spanish' Spanish), and installed the latest drivers (voodoo3 video card, lan card and 440LX motherboard), Direct X, and IE 3.02 and later IE 5.0 plus the few criticals updates you can download now from Windows Update. Yay me!cool smiley

Since IE was horribly slow, and didn't work well with more modern webpages (gMail) tongue sticking out smiley, I installed the latest version of K-Meleon. I't had worked (nearly) flawlessly, still a bit slow, but way faster than IE. Still, in this configuration I've sill seen a few bugs or quirks to comment:



1. The graphics of the TOOLBARS appear distorted. The default theme copies the appearance of IE3/5 background and icons. Still, where in IE itself the icons appear correctly (mainly greyscaled/softly colored icons over the background, without transparence), in K-Meleon the icons appear with the white/light grey turned transparent.

So, for example, the Home icon isn't white as it should, but light purple (which is the colur of the windows theme I am using). On the other side, the icons of the Links/Favorites, and favicons appear correctly, since those are 'true' icon instead of bitmap resources. Worse, when the icons are highlighted or grayed out, they nearly dissapear.

Everything seem to appear correctly on my personal Windows XP computer confused smiley, so it seems to be a problem with the libraries for the toolbar, where both the bright pink (fucsia), and from light gray to white color become transparent.

Since I don't have neighter access to a full instalation of IE 5.5 in spanish (the latest for Windows 95), or a newer version of Office that works on this machine to check if this 'bug' was fixed on an update of the DLLs of the toolbar, I'm going to send this as a bug.

If someone does have the configurantion I'm speaking of to check the latest version, or, could send me a full spanish IE5.5 installation kit (usually they came on CDROMs from IT press like PC World and such, annouced as 'Internet Explorer Administration Kits' (IEAK), to check it myself, please reply to this message.



2 The second thing it is that when you open several windows/tabs, and one or some of then fails to load (conecction timeout or something), fron mow on K-Meleon refuses to load new pages, the transfrence bar remains empty. You must close and restart M-Keleon to work again. IE on similar actions, even working WAY slower, still displays the 404 messages and keep working after it. The bug happens with boot working at the same time or separately, so it doesn't seem to be one of the bugs in the TCP/IP stack getting corrupted.



3 Now the third. For example in this same forum, when I'm trying to write a right square bracket for the forum tags with
{AltGr} + {Plus|Asterisk|Right Square Bracket}
on traditional spanish keyboards, K-Meleon zooms up as if I were pressing
{Shift} + {Plus|Asterisk|Right Square Bracket}
. There seems to be an accelerator that souldn't.



4 The fourth thing is more of a freature request: on the tabs bar, there is now the possibility to put close buttons on each tab like on Opera. I've then set the right click to create a new tab, and changed the double click to always create a new tab, so I don't close a tab accidentally. Still, there is no 'Do nothing' option on it so I don't create new tabs when I'm left-clicking too fast or the system works sluggishtongue sticking out smiley.



And no, Install Windows 98 is NOT an optionmad smiley (HD to small and no driver for some ISA cards i'm planing to add to it)tongue sticking out smiley.


Anyway, thanks for any help you can spare and two thumbs up and a pat in the back for you guys. Keep such excelent work smiling smiley.
Toodles!

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Date: November 03, 2008 12:48AM

Sorry, I forgot to send a possible solution to the third point:

Quote
Rubén Martínez Cabello
3 Now the third. For example in this same forum, when I'm trying to write a right square bracket for the forum tags with
{AltGr} + {Plus|Asterisk|Right Square Bracket}
on traditional spanish keyboards, K-Meleon zooms up as if I were pressing
{Shift} + {Plus|Asterisk|Right Square Bracket}
. There seems to be an accelerator that souldn't.


On DOS/Windows, the effect of pressing {AltGr} is equivalent to pressing {Control}+{Alt}. To allow anyone to write those 'third characters per key' in K-Meleon, there are two options:

1. Those conflicting accelerators should be disabled or replaced by others, depending of the keyboard layout you are using.

2. The code that reads the accelerator should check the status of the keys when it gets it. If it reads the status of the shifting keys (which are both Shift, Control, Alt, and Windows/System keys), the code should do this:
a) If it is {Left/Right control}+{Left Alt} it is a 'zoom up' command so it should execute it.
b) If it reads a {Left/Right control}+{Right Alt}, it is usually just a {AltGr} key combination, so the accelerator should be ignored and processed as a standard character keypress with the right ASCII code.

At least it worked like that on my Delphi coding years.grinning smiley

Now I swear I'm shutting up, so please don't kill me!tongue sticking out smiley

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Posted by: desga2
Date: November 03, 2008 01:17AM

What K-Meleon version are you using?

1) This problems happend for your olds Win95 libraries (dll's).
Please read FAQ requeriments for Win9x OS.

2) I think that it's the same problem that 1 old Win95 OS with old libraries (dll's).

3) This accelerators (both) aren't used by K-Meleon lastest versions.
I'm using spanish keyboard and spanish Windows OS and never have this problem.

4) You can close tabs with middle click, i think that this method is better than a close button for each tab, but if you like it you can set it in last 1.5.1 version.
Read this thread about.

Quote
Rubén
And no, Install Windows 98 is NOT an option mad smiley (HD to small and no driver for some ISA cards i'm planing to add to it)

I don't agree with you. I'm use since a lot of time Win9x OS and Win98SE is better than Win95.
I run old K-Meleon versions with out problems in Win98SE with IE6. (All in spanish)

Win98 is similar to Win95 but more modern libraries versions, a lot of bugs fixed, much more stable, and all hardware and software that work in Win95 work identically in Win98. All ISA sound card use the same driver for Win95 and Win98.
Also you can search in the internet for your old sound card drivers, there are a lot of web pages with old win9x drivers.

The Win98 installed size is similar to Win95, about 200/250 MB (I think remember).
I have installed in my old computer: Pentium I 200 MHz with a 2 GB disk and memory 256 MB.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2008 01:28AM by desga2.

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Date: November 03, 2008 04:52AM

Quote
desga2
What K-Meleon version are you using?
1) This problems happend for your olds Win95 libraries (dll's).
Please read FAQ requeriments for Win9x OS.

2) I think that it's the same problem that 1 old Win95 OS with old libraries (dll's).

As I said, I've got the latest K-Meleon (1.5.1), and the system is freshly installed. I've installed all the libraries they ask, and all the updates I've managed to find, which, since Microft cut-off windowsupdate for the Windows 95 OS, it's way harder to do. sad smiley So if someone could help with this I would greatly appreciete it.

The only idea I've got about it would be updating to a higher MS Explorer (5.5 it's the last for Windows 95). I've already installed Office 2000, also the latest Office for Win95, wich adds IE5.0 and it hadn't fixed it. I hope to find the update than fix it and then send the reditributable or dll than fixes it to be added at the FAQ,

Telling me to use Win98 so I've installed the toolbar DLLs of IE6 does not fix the issue and goes against the spirit of K-Meleon, a lighter and smaller but fully compatible browser to run in old / underpowered systems.

After all, GMail works well in IE6 too, so I could just tell the developers to mark Win95 as unsupported and leave it be. Remember, IE 5.0 may be slower but works fine in both issues. It doesn't hang and it's toolbar works fine.

The issue could range from an incompatibility of my video card drivers with the graphical effect of the toolbar, to the suspected dll-hell frack-up. But I think it could be fixed compiling the nest version with an older compiler, or against the floating toolbars of IE 3.0 (so it would work on Win95 straight out-of-the-box), or IE 4.0 and add the redist for it. Unluckily, I don't own another video card (well, another old enought so I can plug it on this motherboard, AGP 2x cards only), so I could test the formar case.

That's why I'm asking here: so we can guess if it's a genuine bug or a 'feature' grinning smiley, and if it could be fixed on a later version, or it is too much work for little gain. Anyway, the browser still works even if you must restart it from time to time, and the first point is just a cosmetic issue.


Quote
desga2
3) This accelerators (both) aren't used by K-Meleon lastest versions.
I'm using spanish keyboard and spanish Windows OS and never have this problem.

Well, I'm using the latest version, and Spanish OS and keyboard, and I've the problem. Just go to the menu bar and open /Ver/Zoom/, and you will see /Aumentar zoom sobre la página Ctrl+Alt++/. The accelerator IS there.

Since you aren't telling me if you are answering me from Spain or any south-american country, I'm going to throw a shoot in the dark as a possible cause and say this:

1. In many of those countries, they use a 'International spanish keyboard distribution', which does have the {+} and {-} keys on the numbers' row, like the US|English keyboards. In the 'Traditional Spanish keyboard distribution' commonly used in Spain, {+} is in the second row of keys, next to the keyboard, and the {AltGr} combination produces the right|closing square bracket, The {-} it's next to the right shift key, and doesn't have a third form, therefore it doesn't present this problem. So, if you are using Windows 9x and those keyboard distributions, it may not be an issue to you, but it may be to others.

2. You are NOT using any Win9x. Instead you are using Win2k or superior, or any modern Unix/Linux which doesn't have this problem (my XP machine also doesn't have it). Those OSes do implement accelerators correctly, so the program doesn't have to rely on ther workaround I mentioned in my previous posts (workaround than existed since MSDOS).

3. You are using a USB or multimedia keyboard. The drivers provided for them in Windows 98, or the ones installed with the hardware also have the issue fixed, so the multimedia keys can work right. I'm tring to find a driver of one of those for Win95 to try to fix the issue. If I do succeed I wlii post it here, but IF it is result of intrinsec DOS/Win95 behaviour, I won't be able to do so. so implementing the workarround should be proposed, eighter in the code, or in the accel.cfg.

Quote
desga2
4) You can close tabs with middle click, i think that this method is better than a close button for each tab, but if you like it you can set it in last 1.5.1 version.

If tou reread my post you will see how I had done that already. My question was: On Windows 95, the middle button and the wheel are usually ignored by the default mouse driver so no problem there. I use the right click on the toolbar to open a new tab.

The problem was is that sometimes I left-doubleclick witout meaning it when choosing a tab, and don't want to trigger any of the options (new, close, open/close and popup menu). In the user.js those are encoded respectively as number 1, 0, 3 and 2. I want to do neiter of those, so i've edited it and put the value 4 to the double click action, wich makes it do nothing, just as I want. Still, I'm saying that the 'Do nothing' should appear on the preferences dialog instead of relying on a hack.



Quote
desga2
I don't agree with you. I'm use since a lot of time Win9x OS and Win98SE is better than Win95.
I run old K-Meleon versions with out problems in Win98SE with IE6. (All in spanish)
...
Also you can search in the internet for your old sound card drivers, there are a lot of web pages with old win9x drivers.
...
The Win98 installed size is similar to Win95, about 200/250 MB (I think remember).
I have installed in my old computer: Pentium I 200 MHz with a 2 GB disk and memory 256 MB.

It is not about footprint or soundcards. I remember using it on a Pentium 133 and 128MB just fine. And the integrated drivers for the Soundblaster 16 ISA work just fine for me. There are two reasons for it.

First. The thing it is that I manged to salvage a OLD isa data adquisition card. You know, one of those things that you can use to operate/monitor automatons. I'vent managed to find a brand or anything, and only have a couple of floppies with drivers and compilation libraries on Dos/Windows 3.1. Since I heve no documentation and the DOS compiler was non standard, and I don't have it eigther, I though of using the Win3.1 libraries wich seem to be for a Borland compiler. If not i will end throwing it away. But I won't update then.

The second reson and the most important is that I do NOT own one. Specially on a forum of an Open Source and Free program, one shouldn't recomend pirated software. And if I repair it enought to use it as a browsing machine / info quiosk at my job, I don't want to have an inspector crucifying my boss because I wasn't using legal software, when I just bought 2 Win95 OEM licenses, the booklets still covered in plastic, paying 10 euros in a junk shop. We already had one of those thanks to my bosses in one of my old jobs.

And... I'm ranting at you and you are not to blame. I'm very, VERY, sorry about the rant, but after half an hour to write and translate it, i'm not rewriting it any.

Please, don't take it as anything against you.

And if anyone can help, thank in advance.

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Posted by: desga2
Date: November 03, 2008 09:07PM

Hola Rubén, se me olvidó comentarte que podías escribirlo en español, pero no pensé que tu respuesta fuera a ser tan extensa.

Si me permites resumir tu problema es Win95 y creo que instalando Win98 se resolverían todos.

Tanto Win95 como Win98 son sistemas operativos que ya no son mantenidos por Microsoft. Por lo tanto dudo que nadie quiera denunciarte por usar una copia de un sistema operativo que ya se considera abandonado. Actualizar de Win95 a Win98 se podría considera como una actualización de Win95 por lo que no necesitarias una licencia nueva de Win98. De todas formas puedes adquirir una licencia y el software Win98 de segunda mano por muy poco dinero (si no tienes ningún amigo que la tenga y te la pueda regalar porque ya no lo usa). Yo mismo tengo un par de Win98 con licencia original de equipos viejos que mis amigos me han ido regalando.

Otra posibilidad es instalar linux y emular con Wine.

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Posted by: disrupted
Date: November 03, 2008 09:42PM

i don't have much experience with win95 features/limitations so i can only give feedback in regards to the miscolourisation of the toolbar icons.

check in display properties (from the control panel) and see the settings tab if the driver/graphics card supports true 32bit colours.. it could be set at 16bit and that may cause the icons problem.

if the card only supports as far as 16bit, it might need a driver update..if that's not available, i suggest changing to a different skin; one with only 8bit or 16bit bitmaps as probably the default k-meleon phoenity skin will not display as it should with 16bit colours.

check this link for simple skins..
http://tinyurl.com/5r7xeo
i believe the lo-fi and mosaic series are only 8-bit skins

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Date: November 04, 2008 12:58AM

Gracis por saber que te puedo contestar en castellano.

Tengo copias de Windows 98, pero mientras que el sistema que tengo es más que suficiente, pensaba 'aligerarlo' y usarlo como experimento, pera lograr 'tunear' el viejo 95.

Uno de los trabajos as recientes que se nos ofrecio a la empresa imfomática en la que trabajo (principalmente reparación, pero tambien hacemos algo de programación), era crear una de esas ruletas que emplean los supermercados, para repartir premios con los tickets de compra. Cuendo comenzamos a calcular el presupuesto del sistema con los requisitos que nos exigia el cliente (un pulsador y luz indicadora en cada caja, y la imagen de la ruleta generada por ordenador en un monitor colgado de un balcón), solo el sistema de los pulsadores y luces exigia una tarjeta de adquisición de datos de más de 600 euros, la más básica, mas las licencias de compiladores para su API, y el equipo en si (ordenador y pulsadores). Todo salia casi medio millón.

Así que estoy con un reto personal de tratar de hacer algo equivalente con el equipo que segunda mano que retiramos de empresas y sus licencias (Windws 95 OEM hemos llegado a tener a patadas, equipos con Pentium 90, tarjetas de autómatas ISA de un viejo sistema contronando varias vallas e iluminación), y a una fracción del precio actual. Ademas en windows 95 podias instalar driver de 16 bits de Windows 3.1, que no estoy seguro que se pudiese hacer en Windows 98 (a cambio el Win98 tenia tambien los drivers WDM, que han seguido valiendo desdel el Win98 al WinXP, y puede que incluso Vista, pero no he encontrado drivers así para la tarjeta). La otra opcion seria hacerlo en MSDOS, pero entonces adiós imágen con TV-OUT.

Pero antes de perder tiempo en eso, prefiero tratar de practicar con un equipo propio a ver si sería factible lidiar con tegnologia tan obsoleta y sin soporte, antes de hablar nada con un cliente y luego fallar y dejar la reputación de nuestra pequeña empresa por los suelos.

En cuento pueda, voy a tratar de probar con otra tarjeta gráfica, a ver si es cosa de los drivers, como dice todo el mundo. Nvidia siempre ha tenido buen soporte en el pasado. Pero como sea cosa del Windows mismo me fastidia porque la aplicación tenía que ser en color real para poder emplear videos a pantalla completa. Mi gozo en un pozo.

Y de nuevo estoy saliendome del tópico, especialmente en el foro de bugs. Bueno, tratare de enviar los otros errores que mencioné como petición de mejoras. ¿Sabes si hay alguna guia/tutorial de compilación para compilarme el K->Meleon yo mismo?

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Posted by: desga2
Date: November 04, 2008 02:42AM

La verdad es que tienes un reto interesante por delante.

Yo lo intentaría con Win98 (ya se que soy muy pesado) pero te va a facilitar mucho las cosas. Como ya te he dicho todo lo que funciona en Win95 funciona en Win98.
De echo creo recordar que el video no iva muy bien en Win95 y menos a pantalla completa. (Recuerdo que requería unas librerias adicionales llamadas Video for Windows (VFW))

Como pulsador yo utilizaría un joystick o gamepad que puedes conectar al puerto COM de placa base o al puerto de juegos que algunas tarjetas de sonido ISA antiguas incorporaban.

En cuanto a compilar tu mismo K-Meleon aqui te dejo los enlaces con la documentación necesaria:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/BuildKMeleon
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/BuildKMeleonDistribution

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: The icons of the toolbars appear corrupted and other mixed bugs
Posted by: Don
Date: November 19, 2008 09:45PM

Quote
disrupted
i don't have much experience with win95 features/limitations so i can only give feedback in regards to the miscolourisation of the toolbar icons.

I had the same trouble with the toolbar icons in win95, and switching from true color icons to 256 color icons fixed the problem. This issue seems to effect the toolbars only, true color menu icons work fine.

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