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K-Meleon development related discussions. 
Animated PNG support
Posted by: AshenTech
Date: May 29, 2009 07:52AM

Just wondering if aPNG will get support in K-Meleon?

Its supported in latist builds of FF, Opera and some other browsers

http://ashentech.com/index.php?topic=1344.0

thats a thred with some animated png images, far far better then GIF's smiling smiley

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Re: Animated PNG support
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 30, 2009 03:51AM

iff ff3 supports it that means it's supported in gecko 1.9+ and kmeleon will support it by default when it migrates to gecko 1.9

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Re: Animated PNG support
Date: May 30, 2009 04:42AM

Quote
disrupted
iff ff3 supports it that means it's supported in gecko 1.9+ and kmeleon will support it by default when it migrates to gecko 1.9


One question....

WHY do we need to migrate to Gecko 1.9??

Cheers!


My favorite forums
http://www.graphixanstuff.com
http://www.closeprotectionworld.co.uk/index.php?referrerid=11530

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Re: Animated PNG support
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 30, 2009 07:02AM

Quote
Gorilla no baka
Quote
disrupted
iff ff3 supports it that means it's supported in gecko 1.9+ and kmeleon will support it by default when it migrates to gecko 1.9


One question....

WHY do we need to migrate to Gecko 1.9??

Cheers!

so we can have apng support tongue sticking out smiley

but seriously, this is a very good question.. apart from apng support- which is no doubt superior to gif but before getting too excited about it, let's not forget it's currently supported by only 2 browsers..namely ff3+ and opera, is not officialy recognised by the png society and hopefully it won't meet the same fate as of mng's which was/is a very good animation format and similar to apng was based on png as well- naturally kmeleon as a browser based on the gecko trunk will need to move to the still-supported trunk..someday mozilla will inevitably drop support for 1.8 (they threatened to do that by dec '08 but they didn't).. so for security reasons above all; the transition to 1.9 will be essential.

gecko 1.9+ has better support for cloud9 computing(web applications), better javascript handling and speed and some bug fixes that were overlooked in previous trunks.
unfortunately upgrading gecko will come at a price.. because 1.9+ builds do not support older oses, kmeleon(theoretically) will no longer work on windows 9x. another drawback will be the increase in memory and cpu consumption which comes with the js speed gain.. and biggest disadvantage for me atleast(unless dorian can find a way around it) are the ssl error pages(nanny browsing) that replace regular error dialogs that comes with sites with outdated certificates or personal certificates which aren't recognised by mozilla(or the other big guys).

personally, i'm very happy with gecko 1.8.. and unless 1.9 gives me the complete satisfaction i have with 1.8 (especially removal of ssl error pages); it's very unlikely i'll be updating to km 1.6 sad smiley

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Re: Animated PNG support
Date: May 30, 2009 01:55PM

Quote
disrupted
Quote
Gorilla no baka
Quote
disrupted
iff ff3 supports it that means it's supported in gecko 1.9+ and kmeleon will support it by default when it migrates to gecko 1.9


One question....

WHY do we need to migrate to Gecko 1.9??

Cheers!

so we can have apng support tongue sticking out smiley

but seriously, this is a very good question.. apart from apng support- which is no doubt superior to gif but before getting too excited about it, let's not forget it's currently supported by only 2 browsers..namely ff3+ and opera, is not officialy recognised by the png society and hopefully it won't meet the same fate as of mng's which was/is a very good animation format and similar to apng was based on png as well- naturally kmeleon as a browser based on the gecko trunk will need to move to the still-supported trunk..someday mozilla will inevitably drop support for 1.8 (they threatened to do that by dec '08 but they didn't).. so for security reasons above all; the transition to 1.9 will be essential.

gecko 1.9+ has better support for cloud9 computing(web applications), better javascript handling and speed and some bug fixes that were overlooked in previous trunks.
unfortunately upgrading gecko will come at a price.. because 1.9+ builds do not support older oses, kmeleon(theoretically) will no longer work on windows 9x. another drawback will be the increase in memory and cpu consumption which comes with the js speed gain.. and biggest disadvantage for me atleast(unless dorian can find a way around it) are the ssl error pages(nanny browsing) that replace regular error dialogs that comes with sites with outdated certificates or personal certificates which aren't recognised by mozilla(or the other big guys).

personally, i'm very happy with gecko 1.8.. and unless 1.9 gives me the complete satisfaction i have with 1.8 (especially removal of ssl error pages); it's very unlikely i'll be updating to km 1.6 sad smiley

That`s what i suspected...more or less..There is no real need to upgrade except for the fact that we are "friendly pushed" toward it..

What about the old wersions ..will they still be available somwhere or they will be erased from the hard disk?? Because in this case i need to stash one or two versions of K-meleon on my USB...If when upgraded to 1.9 K-meleon will inherit the same memory leaks and same memory usage as Firefox than it is not worth it...

About security..Kmeleon 1.5.2 i have has been running for more than half of year i guess on a test computer running windows xp pro ,windows 2000 win 2000server and advanced server with no security at all no antivirus ..The only security it had on it was all the services were shut down and set on disabled...
Only 4 running DHCP PLUG AND PLAY RPC AND AUDIO When i was going crazy i would close audio and plug and play and surfing with only 2....

No antivirus ..nothing no firewall just me and the stupid BT router,,,*(BT router`s firewall disabled as wel..)

I have not had any problem or whatsoever so faR...And i was not a nice gorilla ...

No sir,, I frecvently visited certain sites of a doubtful reputation tongue sticking out smiley for...Err...

for umm...documentation purposes and stuff...(DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS...drool smileytongue sticking out smiley)

No viruses no trojans nothing..

So i guess the security is quite good on K-meleon...


My favorite forums
http://www.graphixanstuff.com
http://www.closeprotectionworld.co.uk/index.php?referrerid=11530



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2009 01:57PM by Gorilla no baka.

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Re: Animated PNG support
Posted by: guenter
Date: May 30, 2009 03:19PM

Quote
Gorilla no baka
That`s what i suspected...more or less..There is no real need to upgrade except for the fact that we are "friendly pushed" toward it..

Maybe I did not get the yeast of the thread I read at mozilla because I en-US is not my mother language - But I think i understood. Take it, Cum granu salis.

& my opinionated opinion about this is:

For PPL that have NT or better it is and improvement. 9x user will likely stand in the rain.

A dying species, their OS provider has (unlike IBM) the policy that an OS has a life cycle of 5 years */-. No security updates after that, no updates for shipped apps like players and most of all NO NEW COMPILERS which should take care of those that are too "stubborn". And that are not buying new hardware for one reason or the other. If they put now $$ into circulation they deserve no better.

Some PPL at Mozilla.org openly endorsed this policy. Because they deserve no support. Reason. No OS updates means that these PCs are likely to be infected, potential bots and a danger to their owners and especially the rest of internet community. They do their duty and buy hard and software (like well earning young IT nerds). Best force them because they do not have the common sense to buy new hard and software when it is time to move.

All was combined by some subtle flaming against a SeaMonkey person, that seemed critical. Like: with Your little %tage, here is Your chance, go support these misers. That will at least give You a better market share.

The answer was something like: that they are changing SeaMonkey to toolkit already and cannot support ... (the problem seems that Cairo support is not implemented by MS for 9x - and You need the new compilers & SDK).

Consolation for PPL that are on old PCs and OSs. After most of those that can afford have moved; it will be even less interesting for bot-net and other malware coders to "support" them and their obsolete systems. tongue sticking out smiley

p.s. Maybe You should sell cars with life cycle in the Seattle area.
But You'd probably hit the wrong guys.

The real problem with wild dogs is not the dog but their careless owners.
& the real danger with bot-net infected PCs is not the PC but their careless owners.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2009 03:21PM by guenter.

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Re: Animated PNG support
Date: May 30, 2009 06:58PM

Quote
guenter


A dying species, their OS provider has (unlike IBM) the policy that an OS has a life cycle of 5 years */-. No security updates after that, no updates for shipped apps like players and most of all NO NEW COMPILERS which should take care of those that are too "stubborn". And that are not buying new hardware for one reason or the other. If they put now $$ into circulation they deserve no better.


No problem..there is allways linux which beats the crap out of MS anyawy from security point of view..


Quote
guenter

Some PPL at Mozilla.org openly endorsed this policy. Because they deserve no support. Reason. No OS updates means that these PCs are likely to be infected, potential bots and a danger to their owners and especially the rest of internet community.

That`s mainly bollocks and they know it...Most of the time a guy who hangs on to his old pc with old software knows his stuff,And therefore the chances that the computer to become A Target for boots and stuff is minor..



Quote
guenter

They do their duty and buy hard and software (like well earning young IT nerds). Best force them because they do not have the common sense to buy new hard and software when it is time to move.

That makes sense, because is all about money after all...


Quote
guenter

Consolation for PPL that are on old PCs and OSs. After most of those that can afford have moved; it will be even less interesting for bot-net and other malware coders to "support" them and their obsolete systems. tongue sticking out smiley

L.o.l that`s mainly true...And anyway do not forget that there is ALWAYS LINUX.

Do not chuck out old computers only because they are not able to run Vista or Windows 7. INSTALL LINUX ON THEM INSTEAD ADD COMPIZ FUSION, BERYL AND CALL ALL YOUR FRIENDS WITH Vista or 7 and show them what is all about!!


For real old hardware that can not run windows 2000 or XP there is Puppy linux which loads completly in as little as 35 MB ram and run from there ..RESULT...BALZING FAST..

Heck if you want compiz there are even Puppys with Compiz there..

Bottom line DO NOT CHUCK OUT OLD HARDARE ONLY BECAUSE SOMEBODY UP THERE SAID SO..


My favorite forums
http://www.graphixanstuff.com
http://www.closeprotectionworld.co.uk/index.php?referrerid=11530



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2009 07:00PM by Gorilla no baka.

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Re: Animated PNG support
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 30, 2009 09:12PM

gorilla, i didn't mean km will become risky to use with non-supported gecko.. heck i still use km 0.8 sometimes.. km will never be ie smiling smiley but what i meant by security reasons is the liability part.. km devs can't publish a program knowing of a vulnerability that was announced in a trunk but can no longer fix because mozilla will not issue a patch update.. no matter how remote that risk is; it will be a serious liability so they will always need to use supported builds. also many users will be reluctant to download and install km if it has vulnerability in the engine that isn't addressed due to mozilla dropping its support.

even with the most severe vulnerabilities, you can disable js(which is the main cause of all evil) and use an extension like policy manager or noscript to enable js for only the sites you use frequently and require js for proper display.


Quote
guenter
If they put now $$ into circulation they deserve no better.
this is so true and typical stinky capitalist policy..unfortunately mozilla has become a big representative of it in the last few years sad smiley

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Re: Animated PNG support
Date: May 31, 2009 01:15AM
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Re: Animated PNG support
Posted by: guenter
Date: May 31, 2009 03:19PM

Quote
disrupted
Quote
guenter
If they put now $$ into circulation they deserve no better.
this is so true and typical stinky capitalist policy..unfortunately mozilla has become a big representative of it in the last few years sad smiley

IMHO they forget that info/education is a necessity in a democratic society of supposedly informed citizen. Voters are the electorate - affordable info must be available - even without the additional hustle of a NIX.

For financial reasons some PPL simply must keep hardware and software or have recycled software. & Yes - IMHO they usually are PC savvy or have connection that is.

Old hardware is ecological correct and thus should be political correct among rich young nerds. So I really do not know at why You should discontinue support.
Even a few % of all users are many million & potentially big enough consumer group in a free market centered non socialist system.

PPL do not have to share a socialist political sentiment to say that PPL with a limited consumer value "deserve better".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2009 04:16AM by guenter.

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Re: Animated PNG support
Posted by: Drahken
Date: July 01, 2009 06:31PM

I want the 1.9x GRE for the massive javascript speed increase (all prior versions of the gecko engine have been the slowest F~ing things on the planet!! A fact that becomes more & more aggravating on a daily basis, with so many sites using javascript more & more (stupid AJAX). KM's extremely slow js, due to it's outdated GRE, has been making me seriously consider switching to FF3 or opera, waiting for a 1.9x version of KM (not counting hao's minimal KM) is extremely frustrating).

It also comes with a new graphics engine, which not only adds apng support, but also adds things that should hgave been in all browsers all along, such as resampling zoomed images instead of merely scaling them.

...Not to mention supporting the new webstandards of css3 & html5.


Bottomline: The jump from 1.8->1.9 is far more important than the jump from 1.7->1.8 was.

----
"People who live in glass houses ....should close the friggin curtains!"

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