Bing
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 29, 2009 12:31AM

The new search engine from Microsoft seems to be tied in to their searchlight product which is a hefty download. I see they are offering a mini-bing version for mobile devices. Any idea if we can make it work with KM?

Tks.

N

Re: Bing
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 29, 2009 02:59AM

you mean silverlight? i doubt if the mobile version will work because since it's for mobiles it will most probably just run on java oses like symbian or windows ce and not regular windows.

i never tried fiddling with the main silverlight plugin because i didn't see the need.. the integrated searchengine thing is probably done through the registry and should be easy to remove/exclude. the silver light plugin is around 5mb.. maybe we can remove ~2 mb if the setup has a lot of unnecessary ms crap files(very likely).. but the thing is i can't test because i couldn't find a site that embeds this plugin.. do you know of any websites that use silverlight?

edit: this is the direct dl link for silverlight if any one wants to fiddle with it and not have to go through ms 'get another browser loser' bullshit:
http://silverlight.dlservice.microsoft.com/download/C/9/F/C9F55BCE-0652-4903-9473-3E7C14E5BBD7/Silverlight.2.0.exe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2009 03:01AM by disrupted.

Re: Bing
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 29, 2009 06:59AM

disrupted,

I would like to use Bing, but I like light apps and plugins for search, so I think using Google via Scroogle is best for me and I still have the old MSN search code (and for that matter, Yahoo) so I need to be convinced.

One point that I noticed was that they say this engine will keep you on site, meaning external links are not a priority... a way to keep income up close and personal I guess.

N

Re: Bing
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 29, 2009 07:05AM

nde, i don't know if silverlight can be converted manually..i can't insall it because i don't really trust it..

i don't think silverlight is worth the effort..i did some research and it seems the biggest(and only) advocates of silverlight are its developers and .net programmers who lack flash knowledge.

i don't want to rush into a predication that this thing is almost dead..but it appears than with the early versions of silverlight, some websites; particulary sports with streaming video were quick to endorse and implement(as mentioned on silverlight blogs to test out certain apps) and nbc ofcourse.. i checked a few of those websites expecting to see 'install silverlight' etc but it seems those sites were just as quick to drop it and everything is built with flash now.

nba.com
watch.tsn.ca/#clip177324 (that was supposed to be a streaming silverlight)

silverlight seems far from a final version and the ms zealots keep saying it's beta(2.0) but nothing on ms sez so. the "plugin" also seems to have problems with firefox with some devs releasing a custom javascript(silverlight.js) to address some gecko conflicts with silver.. most say it isn't working.

i extracted the files using an msp expander from this link: http://blogs.msdn.com/heaths/archive/2006/04/07/571138.aspx nothing registers with regsrv32 or runs directly with rundll32 so i have no idea how ms installs the plugin but obviously all files must go in the systems' folder and not the browser's plugin folder.. there seems to be some locale files that can be done without..
Size: Name:
269.672 silverlightconfiguration.EXE
436.080 silverlightconfigurationui.DLL
132.936 ctrlResource.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_fr.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_it.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_de.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_es.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_zh_hans.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_zh_hant.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_ja.DLL
11.608 mscorlib_ko.DLL
138.080 systemwindowsbrowser.DLL
11.608 system_ja.DLL
11.096 system_ko.DLL
11.608 system_fr.DLL
11.608 system_it.DLL
11.096 system_de.DLL
11.608 system_es.DLL
10.584 system_zh_hans.DLL
11.608 system_zh_hant.DLL
789.328 System.Windows.DLL
10.568 mscorrc_zh_hans.DLL
10.568 mscorrc_zh_hant.DLL
326.472 systemxml.DLL
236.384 microsoftvisualbasic.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_zh_hant.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_zh_hans.DLL
289.648 systemruntimeserialization.DLL
162.632 systemnet.DLL
342.880 systemservicemodel.DLL
76.648 systemservicemodelweb.DLL
3.076.424 coreclr.dll
3.086.144 core.dll
783.680 ctrl.dll
5.587 manifest.XML
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_de.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_es.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_fr.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_it.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_ja.DLL
11.128 microsoftvisualbasic_ko.DLL
1.461.064 mscorlib.DLL
11.592 mscorrc_de.DLL
11.080 mscorrc_es.DLL
11.080 mscorrc_fr.DLL
11.080 mscorrc_it.DLL
11.080 mscorrc_ja.DLL
11.080 mscorrc_ko.DLL
11.080 mscorrc.DLL
289.616 systemcore.DLL
236.352 system.DLL

Directory contains 12.511.539 Bytes in 51 Files

Total: 12.511.539 Bytes in 51 Files


silverlight seems to be mainly for windows+ie.. they say it supports mac osx but i've yet to find someone of a mac(online) using/developing for it. maybe ms is still living in the delusion that aps/plugins for its oses only will sell like hot cakes, that doesn't happen anymore and there's no place for your cloud9 thingy if you keep ignoring browsers and os offering from others. i really hope this thing never catches on, i'm no programmer but from what i read about how silverlight blends in ajax with xml with .net; it's seems like a hacker's dream come true

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=this+site+requires+silverlight

edit: sorry.. i misunderstood, thought you were asking about silverlight..what's bing? this bing: http://www.bing.im/en/

grr..can't believe i went into all this silverlight research for nothing grinning smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2009 07:09AM by disrupted.

Re: Bing
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 29, 2009 07:40AM

can you use this?
http://www.peoplesound.com/en
bing sez will be their new site

sorry..i feel very dumb now..you mean this bing : http://www.bing.com
i didn't know about it.. i doubt if it will require silverlight to work and if there will be a version for mobiles (url) i think it can be used without problems in km..worst case scenario is a useragent switch ot a mobile device

now it sez cming soon..on bbc they say it isn't running yet
http://212.58.226.77/2/hi/technology/8070790.stm

yes, a special version will indeed require silverlight but it isn't mandatory to use normal 'bing' as mentioned there:
http://searchengineland.com/microsofts-bing-vs-google-head-to-head-search-results-20006
also has a good comparison against googl



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2009 08:00AM by disrupted.

Re: Bing
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 29, 2009 09:24PM

Quote
disrupted
can you use this?
http://www.peoplesound.com/en
bing sez will be their new site

sorry..i feel very dumb now..you mean this bing : http://www.bing.com
i didn't know about it.. i doubt if it will require silverlight to work and if there will be a version for mobiles (url) i think it can be used without problems in km..worst case scenario is a useragent switch ot a mobile device

now it sez cming soon..on bbc they say it isn't running yet
http://212.58.226.77/2/hi/technology/8070790.stm

yes, a special version will indeed require silverlight but it isn't mandatory to use normal 'bing' as mentioned there:
http://searchengineland.com/microsofts-bing-vs-google-head-to-head-search-results-20006
also has a good comparison against googl

disrupted,

If it can be adapted with a FF/SM/KM style code, then I'll use it. If it is a separate file like silverlight, I'll pass. I read the comparison link you provide, very nice and detailed head to head results. I guess I'll wait until next week to see how it is received.

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2009 09:24PM by ndebord.

Re: Bing
Posted by: disrupted
Date: May 31, 2009 03:53AM

this is supposedly the bing search string:
bing.com/search?q={search word}+&form=QBLH

test e.g
http://www.bing.com/search?q=kmeleon+&form=QBLH

should start working on 4th of june..and this won't need silverlight..because to be honest if the default bing would only work with silverlight installed, then that would be a very stupid move from ms when trying to compete with google.. many tech sites say the silverlight plugin will be required on a special bing version where some sort of eye candy visualisation for saved search history..which is still very dumb cause all that needs is a cookie and a bit of javascript..seems like ms is trying hard to keep silverlight breathing

there will be a mobile version but don't know the string..probably be something like that:
m.bing.com/search?q={search word}

p.s. if you google something..you say i googled.. what if you search with bing?

edit: fun fact: google is the only search engine you can access and use with legacy browsers like mosaic and ie3 without any errors or display problems.. requiring any sort of plugin to use a new search engine will be killing it in its cradle







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2009 04:08AM by disrupted.

Re: Bing
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 31, 2009 09:31AM

disrupted,

Much thanks. I now have it loaded up in my search engine list and ready to go when it goes "gold" in June.

I find myself using Scroogle as my default engine and Clusty when I fell the need for multiple engines.

<g>

N

Re: Bing
Posted by: disrupted
Date: June 01, 2009 09:56PM

bing seems to be working now..sez beta

the people behind bing are really working hard. and i've lately noticed on swiftfree cpand a lot of visits from their bots.. so far mosts visitshave been from googlebot and just once from ask. the googlebot usually comes every couple of days scans a file or 2..the bingbot was like an attack on mywebsite and it went through every single file in there.

i've tested it with couple of search terms and it's a huge improvement over live search.. the results are very good at par with google but without any google blogs/youtube or ms blogs.. it's feels like scroogle or google minus google. no banners or download toolbar crap..just what you're looking for with a couple of text ads on the side. bing has a fresh new look and no silverlight required anywhere so far.. one very nifty feature is a slider that pops up when you hover on a result which reveals a text preview of the website..it's very convenient and will probably be copied by others.



where bing is really strong is in images search.. i used a tricky search word: c53a .. c53a is a chassis code number for a mitsubishi model(generally used to search spare parts) and is also a code for cable connector accessory used in satellite recievers/digital convertors etc. bing immediately showed results for exactly what you expect.. the car, its parts and the connector. google was very confused and instead of actually interpreting this code, decided to display images of people from blogs where their cameras have saved the pics in this sequence.







competition is always good and after years of google monopoly and no doubt superiority, bing is a very welcomed addition.

bing's simple string is this:
www.bing.com/search?q=
for images:
ww.bing.com/images/search?q=

Re: Bing
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 02, 2009 12:48AM

disrupted,

Yes, your revised search string is much simpler and more importantly it works very nicely.

bing.com/search?q=

Much thanks!

N

Re: Bing
Posted by: Paul
Date: June 02, 2009 01:46AM

Lets hope they don't eventually condition people to "search terms" as with Google over the years

Re: Bing
Posted by: caktus
Date: June 02, 2009 02:18AM

Just tried Bing a few times and the speed seems impressive. I particularly like the site searce option that some times comes up in the search window.

But I concerned about safety. Does Bing contain any spyware, etc?

Thanks.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~


Re: Bing
Posted by: Fred
Date: June 04, 2009 09:09AM

The image search of bing is unfortunately almost
unusable, if javascript is disabled.
I might accept using javascript on the bing site,
allowing it temporarily by a javascript button or
using Noscript, but being forwarded to an unknown site
with javascript enabled is not acceptable to me.
Seeing more than the first page of the image search results
is also only possible with javascript enabled.

Fred

Re: Bing
Posted by: disrupted
Date: June 04, 2009 10:14AM

fred..that's correct..bing in general is heavy with js..that's why google is still best when it comes to barebone surfing.. but you can try the policy manager extension as it let's you allow certain sites to access js permanently while leaving js disabled for all other sites..this is a better approach than that of noscript.. this way you can view the images normally in bing but js for the sites will be disabled and you can surf to them without any risks

download link for policy manager and a little tutorial there:
http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,91203,92071

Re: Bing
Posted by: Fred
Date: June 05, 2009 09:25AM

@ disrupted

Thank you for the tip.
I use mostly my no chrome version, which does not support extensions
in chrome, but I will use it when I use other browser versions.

Regards

Fred

Re: Bing
Posted by: Fred
Date: June 05, 2009 09:26AM

P.S.

I wanted to write NoXul versions.

Fred

Re: Bing
Posted by: Yogi
Date: June 06, 2009 09:58PM

Beside the very irritating fact that the image search of Bing is unusable with JavaScript disabled:



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Bing isn't for my taste at least.

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