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K-Meleon development related discussions. 
Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: Guest234
Date: April 16, 2007 12:57PM

Mozilla will be releasing the last update for the FF 1.5.x line on April 24, 2007 (nine days from this writing), apparently called FF 1.5.12, and apparently based on an updated rv: 1.8.0.12 gecko core. K-Meleon 1.0.2 is based on the 1.8.0.7 core, which is a little out of date.

I was wondering if there will be a K-Meleon 1.03 (or whatever) that will use a later core, or preferably the last (apparently) rv: 1.8.0.12 gecko core?

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: guenter
Date: April 16, 2007 06:25PM

The next will be based on 1.8.1.X (AFAIK that is a improved GRE, no service release).

see at: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,70756

= Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3pre) Gecko/20070310

private 1.02 updates to most recent SeaMonkey GREs: via http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,25998,page=4

e.g. by Fred and others - even downloads not anouncing it explicitely have new GRE.
http://rapidshare.com/files/24642357/k-meleon1.02G.exe.html

Al's K-Ninja a 1.02 k-meleon with other surface up to 1.8.1.4 pre

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: Guest234
Date: April 18, 2007 12:49AM

Thanks for the reply Gunter. The release you describe seems to be based on the same or later core (1.8.1.x) as used in FF 2.0.x and SeaMonkey 1.1.1. What I was looking for is if there would be a K-Meleon based on the underlying FF 1.5.x / SM 1.0.x core, which is the Gecko 1.8.0.x core, as far as I can tell.

I found SM 1.1.1 not to be as stable for me as SM 1.0.8, particularly its included IRC client. A friend had some trouble with FF 2.0.x over 1.5.x (I haven't much experience with FF 2.0.x yet to judge; my laptop runs it).

On my home websurfing machine, I'm still running FF 1.5.11 and SM 1.0.8, and intend to try the final versions in this line. I was hoping there would be a K-Meleon that would be updated to the final Gecko [apparently] 1.8.0.12 engine. 1.8.0.12 isn't out yet, but it looks like this will be the last mozilla.org release of that trunk on April 24, 2007. I was hoping there would be a K-Meleon based on that release, say maybe a K-Meleon 1.03, then a later release based on the 1.8.1.x Gecko trunk, maybe called K-Meleon 1.1. K-Meleon 1.02 is based on Gecko 1.8.0.7, which has a few security holes, AFAIK.

I understand that K-Meleon has less resources than either mozilla.com or mozilla.org, so it might not update as frequently, but I think a K-Meleon version based on the final Gecko 1.8.0.x trunk would be useful, assuming the final version of 1.8.0.x (1.8.0.12?) would be stable (the final version of the FF 1.0.x line, FF 1.0.8, wasn't as stable for me as FF 1.0.7, which is why I moved to the FF 1.5.x line in the first place).

There are some of us who continue to use older h/w and older OSes. It's my understanding that FF 3.x and its underlying gecko core will drop support for W98/W98SE (and of course, W95 and possibly NT4). This is one reason I'd like to see a final update of K-Meleon 1.0x based on the last 1.8.0.x gecko, and likewise, a final K-Meleon version based on the last gecko 1.8.1.x line when the time comes -- older compatibility.

Anyhow, these were my thoughts when asking my question.

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: Fred
Date: April 18, 2007 04:20AM

You should be aware, that further using of the
1.8.0.12 will lead you very soon to unpatched
vulnerabilities, because they will not be fixed
anymore, as the old branch will not be continued
anymore. So I cannot see the advantage in continuing
this further in K-Meleon.
K-Meleon is anyhow very much different from Firefox
and also from Seamonkey, which has big parts
which are not in K-Meleon, e.g.mail or chat.
I would try K-Meleon with the newer Gecko 1.8.1.x ,
and would not expect big problems. I even use
my version K-Meleon-Linux-usable-1.8.1-v4 together
with the Wine emulator in Linux, without Windows.
In Windows it has anyhow better stability.

Fred

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: sderF-oN
Date: April 18, 2007 07:16AM

Guest 234,

These guys will make out like it's some sort of ordeal updating K-Meleon to whichever GRE release u want, however it is very easy to do a straight swap-out with Seamonkey parts to update K-meleon.

First you have to download the zipped
version of Seamonkey. That one is the offical v1.0.8 release, however you could also go for a nightly build if u are feeling adventurous. Either way, download the zipfile and extract the contents to a directory that u will feel comfortable locating later.

Using a good dual-pane file manager application for the next step might be handy, recommend trying freeCommander. What u have to do is essentially now update some K-Meleon components with the newer Seamonkey components. Using freeCommander, open up the unzipped Seamonkey directory in one window, and in the other window open up your K-Meleon directory. There are three areas that need to be updated in the K-Meleon folder: the files which appear in the K-Meleon root directory (C:\Program Files\K-Meleon\), the whole of the \K-Meleon\components[/b] folder, and the \K-Meleon\greprefs[/b] folder. Which ever way u do this is up to u, however I would recommend simply deleting the \components[/b] folder from the K-meleon directory, and then just copy across the \components[/b] folder from the Seamonkey directory. In the latest K-Meleon v1.02 unofficial this is all fred has done. On the other hand, if you are feeling energetic, then simply copying across file for file (if u have installled the original K-Meleon v1.02 offical release) from \Seamonkey\components[/b] to \K-Meleon\components[/b] would suffice, and reduce the bloat as well. If u do this the u also have to delete \K-Meleon\components\compreg.dat & \K-Meleon\components\xpti.dat afterwards for K-Meleon to recognise the updated components files.

Updating the files that appear in C:\Program Files\K-Meleon[/b] & C:\Program Files\K-Meleon\greprefs[/b] is always easiest file for file.

After u have done this restarting K-Meleon and typing in about: will reveal the details of the updated GRE for u.

Original instructions for this method appeared on this website a while back, Fred and friends have been using the instructions to update K-Meleon ever since then. It isn't rocket science, just straight forward file copying and replacement.

Have a great day.


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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: guenter
Date: April 18, 2007 01:20PM

@sderF-oN from optusnet.com.au, thx for the detailed instructions for Guest234.
@Guest234, It is really as easy as described to create the own GRE update.

K-Meleon GRE have AFAIK patched gklayout.dll because of a visual bug. But most ppl do not mind/see the little bug anyway so You can likely update with normal issues and even unpatched nightlies.


BTW sderF-oN, Since You cannot know info so far back: guenter smiling smiley was AFAIK the first to issue a 0.9 updated the way You describe. That was on the 01.04.2005. He updated to a Mozilla GRE 1.7.6 or so and he described this here. That GRE and update was AFAIK before Holger Metzler wrote his update receipe to Mozilla GRE 1.7.12 or so. Eyes-Only had updated a 0.8.2 by Ulf the same way. 0.8.2 was a year before guenter, that was not so openly discussed here - but still the "Original instructions" come from this Forum. The earliest page that I know that mentions that You do not have to build to update an embed application such as K-Meleon is found at a Page at Mozilla Embed Project about Components Reuse.

p. s. Did You know that Al of K-Ninja has the same provider as You?

pp.s Forget Holger Metzlers's info about updating chrome - You have to patch some chrome files - You are less prone to get bugs if You reuse existing chromes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2007 01:30PM by guenter.

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: toaster
Date: April 19, 2007 03:14AM

I've got a question for you guys which is sort of related. Do you think that these unofficial releases detract interest from the official releases? For instance would more people download and get involved in the beta testing for v1.1 if there weren't so many unofficials around?

guenter, Optusnet is the second largest isp in aus, and with a population of around 20 million people then chances are there might be a few of them lurking around here. It's like if somebody came here using AT&T (in the USA), would you assume it was somebody else you knew already or somebody different.

The holger metzger update method is nothing new, in fact somebody else mentioned it here in this thread:

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,69434,69591#msg-69591

It's an interesting technique, man ual update worked ok the first time I tried it.

btw, long time lurker, first time poster ;-)

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: Fred
Date: April 19, 2007 04:58AM

I do not think that beta testing for 1.1 versions has
a relation to the unofficial versions.
These versions always serve a special purpose :
they either have a different language than
the official version, or contain special features,
that are not included in the official version,
(e.g.NoScript, Adblock, Active X Support), or
are suitable for Linux together with the
Wine emulator. There are also versions with
updated gecko engines, to give more security
to the official version, until an official update
is available.
All that has nothing to do with beta testing,
but only answers to particular requests of a
small number of users.
The reason that beta testing is not very popular
is founded on a general fear of many users,
to serve as guinea pigs for new developments.
The advantage of K-Meleon consists also in
the possible diversity of its variations.
Most users will stick to the current official
version, but others like to use a variation,
and this possibility should be offered, as it
always was the case.
Regards
Fred

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: guenter
Date: April 19, 2007 01:03PM

@toaster,
No, I do not think it distracts, when ppl here post updated, altered browsers for use. IMHO You need to know the browser to test - It can be a little frustrating if You do not.

& thx for info about down-under providers. I am glad to hear that You managed to update the first time You tried it. Mine was able to install Mozilla xpi;
Which i did not consider a security update ;-)

Naturally I know that I linked to Holger Metzler's instructions on page one of the thread about FF 1.5.0.9 bug fix out. But that does not mean that I do not know that the idea came from here smiling smiley

sderF-oN tried to make a different point when he stated;

Quote
sderF-oN
Original instructions for this method appeared on this website a while back, Fred and friends have been using the instructions to update K-Meleon ever since then.

Which to me means that ppl like Eyes-Only, Andrew, Brian, Fred, ... and I used and use ONLY a receipe that is derived/learned from Holger Metlers's original instructions. Some of these ppl cannot answer to this "would be" slander any more. So I pointed out that it is an ancient and original brew from here that much predates Holger Metzler's excellent instructions. And it "would be slander" if he was not new here.


BTW. I posted a browser link with activeX support when someone did not get the support installed. For me it did not make sence to post a 1.02 with the original GRE. I do not use it anymore - so I added English components to my everyday browser. When Guest234 asked for a browser with a newer GRE I assumed it might be also of use for this case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 01:06PM by guenter.

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 05, 2007 11:07PM

Fred,

one reason (IMO) why beta testing is harder than it used to be is the current practice of using the official bug reporting system (which is complicated) and not doing much of anything with the Forum section on bugs anymore. In a similar sentiment, I kind of liked the older DLL for bug reporting which you could cut and paste into a forum message.

Just my two cents worth.

N

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 10, 2007 10:59AM

Guenter,

If you were interested in upgrading KM 1.0.2, which GRE would you consider using to do the job (manually)?

Tks,

N

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: guenter
Date: May 10, 2007 02:10PM

Nick,
1.8.13 from Dorian's RC1 or earlier 1.8.13pre because that should still contain patches compatible to 1.02 - I'd placed one with 1.8.13pre & activeX support at Rapid Share and pointed at it when I wrote: even downloads not anouncing it explicitely have new GRE. http://rapidshare.com/files/24642357/k-meleon1.02G.exe.html . It might be still there and You could update Your own by scavenging it. If You use it to update Yours also use its ./defaults/pref/ folder. You could probably also use the GRE and most of the ./defaults/pref/ folder of the latest k-ninja to update Yours.

I do however not see the point to continue to use 1.02 since the 1.1RC search macros and everthing has been so much improved by Dorian, kko and alain. It is also stable and IMHO it is fit not only as candidate.

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 12, 2007 02:38AM

Guenter,


I have been reluctant to use KM 1.1, RCs. Had trouble with the first version on my W98se laptop (it would run sometimes or not and then I had to CAD to get out).

As for the new macro system, I've read KKO's technical FAQ, but am still unsure on how to implement all the stuff I've put into earlier versions of KM. I've got a lot of stuff going on there and am unwilling to move until I can get things working the way I need them. KM is my everyday browser for everything and until I can figure out KM 1.1 properly, I'll stick with KM 1.0.2 with updates.

Much thanks for the info on 1.8.13pre. I'll look into using that for now.

P.S. In many ways, KM 1.1 is a sea change for K-Meleon, with a lot of exciting changes. But because it is a major update with new ways of doing things, it really does need to be explained to help us end users get comfortable with it.

N

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: jmillar
Date: June 05, 2007 10:59PM

I'm very, very happy the project is alive and well, and being developed, and feel appreciative and grateful to the developers. One thing, tho: I don't feel the degree of 'zippiness', the pin-sharp response of Dorian's 1.02 based on 1.8.0.7.

Since Firefox 2 on a direct A-B comparison also feels more sluggish than 1.8.0.12 is the new GRE simply slower than the "old" one? Why "improve" something that worked swimmingly well?

Manual GRE upgrades of 1.02 failed - because of K-Meleon specific requirements even with the usual fileswap tricks to bring it up to latest safe Seamonkey spec-
It started OK but glitches were still all too frequent, so I kept falling back on "old reliable" KM 102 1.8.0.7 or Firefox.

"Not to worry: as soon as 1.1 is out everything will be OK", I thought.

Now I find that 1.1 crashes on me on a predictable basis when I load more than a dozen or 15 layers. And no session-saver to save my ass, er.. time. :-)
1.02 could (and still can) go nimbly up to 30 layers and more, effortlessly, stably, reliably and with no crashes, and I would happily stay with it forever. Known vulnerability issues worry me, tho.

Alas, alack! What to do next?
jmillar

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 06, 2007 08:48AM

jmiliar,

I would look to see if Fred or anybody else is willing to provide an executable patch to KM 1.0.2 to bring it up-to-date with Seamonkey 1.1.2 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2)

N

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: jmillar
Date: June 07, 2007 12:33AM

Thanks, ndebord
I've been stress testing Guenter's 1.8.1.3pre build, and it's VERY stable indeed.

So, this weekend will I will start hammering at the official RC2 and final 1.1, and see if I see the crash pattern more clearly.

In the meantime thanks for the tip!

Cheers!
Juan

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Re: Will there be K-Meleon w/ gecko rv: 1.8.0.12?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: June 07, 2007 09:52PM

jmillar,

I too had crash problems with KM 1.1 final which I attributed to running on my ancient W98se system and/or trying to run KM 1.0.2 and KM 1.1 one after the other. Something seems not to have unloaded and perhaps??? led to a crash. Really don't have a clue. Will have to find the old crash report DLL and load it up to see if it can give me a hint.

N

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