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K-Meleon development related discussions. 
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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Al.
Date: November 02, 2002 05:29AM

Well, load time speed isn't an issue for me, as my PC is a 1.3ghz machine with 256mb RAM: the last time I tested Mozilla, it launched within 5 seconds, K-Meleon of course launches almost instantly (without the symbiotic loader).
Besides, all of these browsers are based on the same engine, Gecko, so yet again it comes down to a matter of personal taste.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Andy Korvemaker
Date: November 02, 2002 05:45AM

One big difference once the two are loaded is the responsiveness of the entire UI. Phoenix, using XUL, is incredibly sluggish on my (old) system, whereas Kmeleon, being native win32, reacts like most other programs. Menus pop up when I click on them, preferences doesn't take a second to move between different options, etc. For those with old computers, the difference in usability is huge.

andy

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Al.
Date: November 02, 2002 07:10AM

"One big difference once the two are loaded is the responsiveness of the entire UI. Phoenix, using XUL, is incredibly sluggish on my (old) system, whereas Kmeleon, being native win32, reacts like most other programs. Menus pop up when I click on them, preferences doesn't take a second to move between different options, etc. For those with old computers, the difference in usability is huge."

Yep, XUL is relatively sluggish, even on my machine. Mozilla, like I mentioned launches within five seconds or thereabouts, however, it usually goes like this: click on Moz. icon, slight pause, splash screen, profile manager, after selecting profile, a pause of a couple more seconds, then the GUI draws on the screen (draws up the buttons rather slowly). K-Meleon, on the other hand, almost instant GUI rendering due to it being like you say, native Win32 MFC.
So if you are using an older machine, there would definately be a noticable launch time with any browser using XUL as opposed to a more native language like MFC. The bottom line is, I guess, if you are in a hurry for some Gecko browsing, K-Meleon is still the browser of choice. If you like eye-candy, then Phoenix or Mozilla.

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Re:It just hit me.
Posted by: tux_unbound
Date: November 02, 2002 08:49AM

the reason so many people are mired in a debate about there being so many
similar competing browsers, is that 20 years of Microsoft Hegemony has
made us forget what true, real and vibrant compettion looks like.
Seems a lot of us wouldn't know it if slapped us in the face.

Oh yeah, competition,.... I remember that . sort of.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Al.
Date: November 02, 2002 09:34AM

Yeah, but K-Meleon, Phoenix, Mozilla are not "competing" browsers. They are open source, so no revenue is gained from their development, and they are all based on the same engine. There are no Mozilla-based browser wars going on.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: jsnj
Date: November 02, 2002 10:06AM

I've tried Phoenix and I use Mozilla regularly. On my PC, PII 433 96MB Win98se, they open up at about the same slow pace. I've timed them. Initial startup after a reboot or having been closed for awhile is about 30 seconds for both. After that, some of the engine or browser or whatever seems to remain in memory even without a loader because they open up at about 10 seconds. And as far as page rendering speed and all that, between the two I notice no difference on my machine.

K-meleon 0.7 initial startup is about 7-10 seconds. Then after that, 3-5. I still use Mozilla most because some pages don't handle as well on K-meleon, there's no zoom image function in Kmeleon which Optimoz provides for Mozilla, and the layer plugin still doesn't catch new window events properly. There's also no 1 step process to open a link in a new layer.. i.e. middle-click.

Phoenix's customizability is improving but not where K-meleon's is yet. What I like about K-meleon which no other browser allows me to do is the fact that I can have layers, bookmarks button, toolbar, and URL bar all on one line.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Stefan
Date: November 02, 2002 07:32PM

> Initial startup after a reboot or having been closed for awhile is about 30 seconds for both.

OMG
Running Win98SE too and a Cel 450. Phoenix is up in 7-8 sek and Moz in 10 on freshly booted mashine (no QL).

You should seriously consider shutting down all that extra crap you have running on your comp that hogs all your CPU.
Start > Run > msconfig [enter]

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Andrew G
Date: November 02, 2002 07:56PM

Phoenix's customizability is improving but not where K-meleon's is yet. What I like about K-meleon which no other browser allows me to do is the fact that I can have layers, bookmarks button, toolbar, and URL bar all on one line.

You can do that with IE.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: SJ Zero
Date: November 03, 2002 12:28AM

The customizability is great because I don't need to learn a programming language to write a skin! After the .7 final release, I'll probably bundle the skin up and put it on the web somewhere, but all I needed to make it was paintbrush! All I'd need is notepad if I wanted to change the buttons around, and I can basically wing it by looking at the configuration files for the default skin.


And Al, you're in the middle of a mozilla-based browser war right now. smiling smiley

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: jsnj
Date: November 03, 2002 02:18AM

>>You can do that with IE

IE has Tabs/Layers now? When did this happen?

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: jsnj
Date: November 03, 2002 02:44AM

>>You should seriously consider shutting down all that extra crap you have running on your comp that hogs all your CPU.

I know of all that's running and I need them all. But my point was that Phoenix opened just as slowly as Mozilla. K-meleon runs on the same hogged CPU PC as the others in question and opens considerably faster.

By the way, Does anyone know if Norton Antivirus slows down a PC considerably? I'm thinking of replacing it with AVG which is so much smaller.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: John M.W.
Date: November 03, 2002 08:11AM

0.7 is SWEET! Even a huge improvement over the beta. Thanks guys.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: prosty
Date: November 03, 2002 09:20AM

the only things that keep phoenix as my browser of choice are middle click to open links in tabs and a better bookmarks thingy.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: blitzkriegkat
Date: November 05, 2002 11:08AM

AVG anti-virus works great for me. I recommend it without any reservation. (hint : it's free, and it ain't got no crap in it)

Never tried the Phoenix browser, but I'm usin Mozilla on my big machine... But on my Pentium 60, now that's another story. IE is a MONSTER, it eats resources like there's no tomorrow! I trust MOzilla to do the same. Even k-meleon 0.6 was sllllooooooooowwwww! But 0.7!!! WOW! Now I can surf the net on my old machine AND get the girl! Thank you K-meleon! Gosh, you made my day!

In the left corner : K-Meleon 0.7
And in the right : Phoenix

Gentlemen, place your bids!

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: rmn
Date: November 05, 2002 07:10PM

I didn't know that anyone is still using a P60. :-)

But this is very interesting. If you have some spare time, why don't you try Phoenix to see which one runs best in old machines (very old, in your case :-P ).

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: Andy Korvemaker
Date: November 06, 2002 01:09AM

For me, on a P150, Kmeleon is usable, Phoenix is barely. Because the Phoenix interface is done in XUL, it is slow. It takes several seconds to open the preferences dialog. It feels rather unresponsive. Kmeleon is a lot better. It takes about 17 seconds to load, but Phoenix takes almost twice as long.

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Re: Phoenix Nightly Builds
Posted by: David
Date: November 06, 2002 11:23PM

Even on my K6-III/400, Phoenix was unacceptably slow. I haven't dared try it on my Pentium/266 or K6-2/333.

However, on all these platforms, KM just flies. No contest.

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