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K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Christophe
Date: August 22, 2000 03:00PM

Well, if you want to take over the code and make some improvements, go for it smiling smiley

Here is a basic list of what is needed to be done in K-Meleon:

- Cookie loading/saving (or maybe let's integrate IE's cookies?)
- Right-click context menu (well, i derived the function in webBrowserChrome.cpp, but it doesn't work and i don't know why, help!)
- Mime types handling (so K-meleon will be able to save files, launch apps, etc...)
- ability to bookmark a page
- file drag&drop
- middle mouse button support for scrolling pages (i don't know if gecko provides an interface for that so i think we'll have to subclass the browser window)

there's probably more but that's all i can think of right now smiling smiley

-christophe

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Mong0
Date: August 22, 2000 07:49PM

Hey Christophe just wanted to let you know that your program kicks ass. Also, for me, the scrolling wheel does work. I have an MS Intellimouse Optical and can use the wheel to scroll. It seems the only thing you have to do is click in the browser fram to shift focus to there and then the wheel works fine. Keep up the awesome work.

Mong0

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Anubis
Date: August 22, 2000 11:59PM

Mong0 -

Your middle mouse button works as a side effect of the MS software you installed.

Hrm, maybe not... my MS mouse is working here without the aid of special software (straight up IntelliMouse). Strange, but I know the MS software aids in the scrolling process for alot of programs.

— Anubis

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Byron Ellis
Date: August 23, 2000 12:10AM

As far as I know, the newer Intellimouse drivers have a built-in "legacy mode" that sends straight-up WM_*SCROLL messages to the focused window (as opposed to the special wheel mouse messages) by default (unless, I believe, the wheel mouse messages are handled by the window's message loop). You may be able to explicitly deactivate this functionality, but I'm rather addicted to the wheel so I've never bothered to figure out if/how to do this :-)

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Cookies Saving ... idea
Posted by: Ben Efros
Date: August 23, 2000 12:28AM

Well, since this browser is open source... I think we should make it be able to have a very expandable cookie type. Why not make a few options for cookie sources, like a mysql server, IE, netscape, whatever. My favorite is the MySQL idea, since that would enable you to login / share your cookies with other browsers (like if you change terminals a lot). Would any one else like to commend on this idea?

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mouse
Posted by: Jonk
Date: August 23, 2000 03:40AM

i have a logitech 3 button mouse... usually in IE, the middle button scrolls, but sofar in the gecko based browsers, the middle button does not do anything. I hope someone can implement this, it would be very useful for non microsoft mosue users.

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mouse
Posted by: Jonk
Date: August 23, 2000 03:40AM

i have a logitech 3 button mouse... usually in IE, the middle button scrolls, but sofar in the gecko based browsers, the middle button does not do anything. I hope someone can implement this, it would be very useful for non microsoft mouse users.

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RE: mouse
Posted by: for logitech users
Date: August 23, 2000 05:18AM

make sure that ms office compatible scroll is ticked in mouse options in the control panel, this works with my pilot+ (first mouse)

--
snaX0r

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RE: Proxy settings
Posted by: Dave O'Brien
Date: August 23, 2000 05:51AM

Very very fast! Faster than Opera even (and that is saying something smiling smiley

Are proxy servers allowed? I couldn't see a setting for it. I can't use this at work without access to the proxy server.

Good work

Dave

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RE: Proxy settings
Posted by: David Bullock
Date: August 24, 2000 03:19AM

>>>
Well, since this browser is open source... I think we should make it be able to have a very expandable cookie type. Why not make a few options for cookie sources, like a mysql server, IE, netscape, whatever. My favorite is the MySQL idea, since that would enable you to login / share your cookies with other browsers (like if you change terminals a lot). Would any one else like to commend on this idea?
<<<

I think this is isn't the sort of functionality that _I_ would like to see in K-meleon. I'm a big MySQL fan, and it's sort of a neat idea, but it sounds like monster feature bloat in the making

Some rationale: It sounds like a feature that would have limited use for recreational users. Also, how many organizations run MySQL servers that allow public access to them to push/pull data - it would be horribly insecure and bandwidth intensive if you scaled it up. If you're talking about recreational users, how many run MySQL on dedicated lines. And, do poeple technically savvy enough to run MySQL on such a box want to fling their username/passwords for read/write access across the internet? If someone compromised your MySQL, they'd have access to all your cookies for the places you online shop at, pick up your email at, and do your banking with. Not a pretty scenario in my view.

I would think (given the above thoughts) that the small group of users who could take advantage of this wouldn't justify the cost of implementing it (in time, and in kilobytes of download).

Personally, I'd like to see K-meleon stay fast, small and simple. I'd like to see it use IE cookies (since it has an IE look and feel and that's where it's users are most likely to come from). Using netscape cookies would be nice as well. It's open source, so it can be modified to fit special need situations, like say for someone who wanted a kiosk style browser.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Date: August 25, 2000 04:48AM

Relying too much on MSIE's functions would be a bad idea, as that would prevent it from working on systems where IE has been removed (such as 98Lite).


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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Ryan Hayle
Date: August 25, 2000 06:21AM

> Relying too much on MSIE's functions would be a bad idea, as that would
> prevent it from working on systems where IE has been removed (such as 98Lite).

It wouldn't need IE to use IE's cookie format--which I think is a great idea. That's yet another area IE has over Netscape--you can go in and edit/delete them so easily. It's very nice.

Regarding the scroll wheel/middle button issue: I think people are getting confused. Standard up/down scrolling with the WHEEL does work fine... What we're talking about is pressing the middle button and dragging up or down to scroll the window, which currently does not work and would be nice.
I would suggest, however, that this be added to the -bottom- of the wish list. It does not seem like a big priority to me--as long as the up/down scrolling works via the wheel.

EMYL,
Ryan

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Date: August 26, 2000 01:08AM

I'd like to see K-Meleon grab the current "link select" cursor from the Windows mousetongue sticking out smileyointer properties. I think that this wouldn't be too much trouble, but it would probably break Win95, since I think only Win98+ have this feature.

Or, if you can't do that, then add the ability to specify the link cursor via the properties dialog.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: wa1er
Date: August 31, 2000 03:37AM

To refresh the list:

- Cookie loading/saving (or maybe let's integrate IE's cookies?)

By integrate IE's cookies, if you mean the format (a directory smiling smiley go right ahead, but make sure to keep it separate from IE's so that a) it doesn't conflict, and b) non-IE systems can use it (also ones with protected system folders)

- Right-click context menu (well, i derived the function in webBrowserChrome.cpp, but it doesn't work and i don't know why, help!)

Is this a good thing? It'll only make the Mac port harder. I have a menu structure that eliminates the need for context menus, at http://people.ne.mediaone.net/rbromfield/kmeleon.txt .

- middle mouse button support for scrolling pages (i don't know if gecko provides an interface for that so i think we'll have to subclass the browser window)
- file drag&drop

Fine, fine...

- Mime types handling (so K-meleon will be able to save files, launch apps, etc...)

Is there any way that you can build this into a abstraction layer so that multiple programs can take advantage of your work (and be compatible with your program)? I'd assume that this could safely use the Windows MIME database because that always exists. A library would mean shared MIME types, so less conflicts. Of course, if you want to eventually use this as the basis for a standalone web system, don't bother. smiling smiley

- ability to bookmark a page

Again, separate these from IE's bookmarks. You can do an auto-import at each load, but keep them separate for non-IE users or people who want two separate browsers.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: whatever
Date: September 06, 2000 02:48AM

I think you forgot to add one

support for control+v for paste. and control+c for copy and control+x for cut

I also suggest you make it possible to at least share the cookies and favourites (booksmarks) with I.E. even if you also make it possible to seperate them from I.E.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: whatever
Date: September 06, 2000 02:53AM

I seriously disagree with the idea for no context menus. Context menus are one of the most basic features of Windows and the right mouse button won't have much use without them. I wouldn't and I know many others who would not seriously consider K-Meleon without context menus. They right mouse button is just too useful to leave it out

If Mac users can't have them then tough. It's they're fault for choosing such a crappy O/S and PCs which usually comes with a one button mouse.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: wa1er
Date: September 09, 2000 10:40PM

First, what one feature confuses people most about the OS: Not context menus, but they're up there. -]

But really, the OS and computers are NOT crappy. The mice, because of the one-button design, last longer. And the new Apple Pro Mouse can't be made in a two-button version. Know why? The button's on the bottom, so the whole mouse is a button. I wanna see you do the same for two buttons.

And the OS (at least OS X when it comes out) is much much better than Windows; and even Microsoft admits IE for Mac is better than IE for Windows, front-end and back-end.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Iain
Date: September 12, 2000 11:42AM

Re the context menus, there is a well documented study of how easy things are to get to with the mouse (Fitt's law?). The corners of the screen are best, because you can essentially "throw" the pointer as far as you like into them, and still hit the corner. Sides of the screen are also good, but the best place is just under the pointer. If you have to travel all the way up to the menu bar on a large window, you spend quite some time aquiring the menu word with your eyes, and then have to position the mouse over a 20x50 pixel area. It's possible to do quite quickly, but can never beat having a menu at the site of the pointer with useful things to do.

Have the main menus for complete flexiblity, but context menus and buttons as shortcuts. They really do work to get the interface out of the way of the task the user is actually trying to accomplish. Ditto keyboard shortcuts.

As far as learning about them, and confusing new users, it was never a problem when things shipped with *real* documentation (not a reference encyclopedia, although that's useful, just an introduction to what's going on). On the Archimedes, you knew that the left mouse button would select, right was actions (as I recall) and middle was for context menus. Invariant behaviour that really helps productivity. I think K-Meleon should do all it can to promote standards here as well as in its adoption of CSS-1 et al. and incorporate context menus and sensible keyboard shortcuts.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Tumbleweed
Date: September 20, 2000 07:04AM

Whether Apple's new mouse is capable of having two buttons is hardly the issue - this is a minimal _Windows_ browser built around Gecko, inspired by a minimal _Linux_ browser built around Gecko (called Galeon). If the Mac people want a minimal browser built around Gecko, they should do so, and tailor it to their own interface needs. Context menus are fantastic for people that know how to use them (and it's really EASY if you have more than one mouse button) - and they're much faster than that ridiculous single-menu-bar approach that the Mac takes. Sure, that approach is easy for beginners, but once you're a power user, it becomes quite frustrating (the concept of a 'power Mac user' is truly amusing - don't even bother trying to argue that!).

The less this project worries about cross-platform development issues, the better it will be at what it's intended to be - a minimalist and FAST browser interface to Gecko.

Now, on to Cookies - it should be noted that Navigator has a better cookie scheme than IE - you can prevent cookies that come from another domain, while allowing others - this should be seriously considered, as it's an easy security tweak.

Along the same scheme - Mozilla has a neat option for image loading - only load images that come from the same server as the html file. Schweet! Easy way to eliminate most banner ads.

Also - font support! I want (need!) the ability to override fonts on a webpage, font font face and font SIZE. And a keyboard shortcut ala that in Navigator (ctrl-[ and ctrl-]) would be most appreciated.

I agree with a previous poster about handling of mailto:'s - it should call the default app for that. Same thing goes for nntp: and ftp: - those should be configurable as to what app to pull up, or just pull up the system default if it's defined.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Andrew Hain
Date: September 20, 2000 06:36PM

Not just fonts: page colours should be overridable as well; there are too many control freaks on the net who think they know better than the settings within the browser for heavy text.
Ideally, these should be settable site by site to handle varying levels of cluelessness by web designers.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: wa1er
Date: September 21, 2000 02:38AM

I didn't realize at the time I posted the context menus thing that the browser was never going to be ported to Mac OS. They've made their own minimal browser anyway (omni-something or other) so K-Meleon can stay straight Windows, including context menus. I do have to say, though, that when using a Mac I almost NEVER have any need for context menus, and I don't use them on Windows much either. And yes, I am a "power user", if you can believe that.

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: Chris Kelly
Date: November 06, 2000 01:03AM

hmm, perhaps it is time to set up a CVS for K-meleon, if even half of us are planning on submitting code changes....

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: dietrich
Date: November 07, 2000 03:49AM

sourceforge takes only a few minutes to set up, and is free.

http://www.sourceforge.com

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: suppafly
Date: December 31, 2000 02:44AM

how about making k-meleon so it can accept new features as plugins much like how icq works.. except icq's plugins arent really that functional for most people who dont do anything but chat.. or like how eudora has plugins for like pgp and message sorting .. i dunno just a thought..

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by: suppafly
Date: January 06, 2001 02:04AM

something i would like to see is the ability to use css to change the color of the scroll bars.. this works in ie.. try www.livejournal.com/~suppafly to see what im talking about.. kmeleons scroll bars dont change colors..

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RE: K-Meleon basic todo list
Posted by:
Date: January 27, 2001 03:12AM

Looking for code gurus for Kmeleon development!
Send an email to kmeleon-dev@lists.sourceforge.net which I just created for development discussions.

If you want to subscribe to the mailinglist you can do so here:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kmeleon-dev

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