Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: desga2
Date: August 31, 2010 01:21AM

@ SoerenB:
Please open a new thread for talk about KM 1.7a, mix versions isn't good.

K-Meleon in Spanish

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: August 31, 2010 02:45AM

moved here.

Cheers
SoerenB

is: I'm back, on wine in some (!) linuxes - speaking of addiction ...

was: No more own machines, because of addiction.
Don't know when I'll be back to normal ...

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: 4td8s
Date: August 31, 2010 10:42AM

not ok to talk about KM 1.7 on a KM 1.6a4 thread, SoerenB. good that you moved your discussion on KM 1.7 to another thread.

to the makers of K-meleon 1.6: how close are you guys producing the first beta version of KM 1.6? almost 4 months now since KM 1.6a4 was released; currently Firefox 4 is at its 4th beta and Seamonkey 2.1 is at its 3rd alpha and sometime in October beta 1 of Seamonkey 2.1 may get released.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 10:44AM by 4td8s.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: August 31, 2010 02:40PM

Hi, 4td8s,

I even moved it a second time, to the thread you started.

btw.:
You do know that noone here gets paid for dev'ing, don't you?
I would not consider it ok for me to compare development progress ...
But of course, your opinion on that is just as good as mine.

Cheers
SoerenB

is: I'm back, on wine in some (!) linuxes - speaking of addiction ...

was: No more own machines, because of addiction.
Don't know when I'll be back to normal ...

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: ndebord
Date: September 01, 2010 05:11AM

Quote
4td8s
not ok to talk about KM 1.7 on a KM 1.6a4 thread, SoerenB. good that you moved your discussion on KM 1.7 to another thread.

to the makers of K-meleon 1.6: how close are you guys producing the first beta version of KM 1.6? almost 4 months now since KM 1.6a4 was released; currently Firefox 4 is at its 4th beta and Seamonkey 2.1 is at its 3rd alpha and sometime in October beta 1 of Seamonkey 2.1 may get released.

4td8s,

Chrome was one of the holdups on KM 1.6 and it is now moving along nicely. FF 3.6xxx involved lots of bloat and changes in Gecko and so KM, which doesn't use XUL/XPI nor SQLite (aside from stubs and some files that can't be removed) needed to work overtime to keep the Green Dragon lean and quick as always.

Some here are using the pre-beta and are pretty happy with it, but I shall wait just a bit longer.

As others have said, KM is a labor of love where when needed people come forward to do what is necessary... over time, a macro guy and the main developer are the core, but that has always been an elastic core that has many who produce code when push comes to shove.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: 4td8s
Date: September 02, 2010 10:19PM

Quote
ndebord

Some here are using the pre-beta and are pretty happy with it, but I shall wait just a bit longer.

well I did get a chance the latest KM 1.6 pre-beta and tested it out on some of my machines. there are some things that need to be worked out on KM 1.6 though.

but the folks who make the next generations of Firefox and Seamonkey browsers have proposed timelines/schedules, even though they may not always follow them because things happen that can be out of their control. at least I have some sort of idea of their progress.

it's called "planning"; the most successful people in this world do careful planning and at least have a timeline/deadline to meet their goals in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2010 10:23PM by 4td8s.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: September 02, 2010 10:50PM

Well, 4td8s,

I suggest you do some planning to become able to join the K-Meleon developer's team some time soon, so things can progress faster and more successful.
No money being paid, I'm afraid!

I deem it *a bit* arrogant of you trying to tell people - of whose professional carreer (edit: plus private obligations .. you do not sound like having kids and a family .. just a guess!) again: about whom you don't really know anything - which way they should go about organizing their spare time to get things done for the sake of you and me and the other K-Meleon users.

PS.: What do others think about this? I'd like to hear many voices ...

Cheers
SoerenB

is: I'm back, on wine in some (!) linuxes - speaking of addiction ...

was: No more own machines, because of addiction.
Don't know when I'll be back to normal ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2010 11:01PM by SoerenB.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: siria
Date: September 03, 2010 01:06AM

Well... For the managers of the company where I work proper planning is extremely important. So the employees are always busy working at timelines and statistics and processes and forms and documentation and controlling and new standards and spend half the day at meetings and the bosses are always 'improving' the processes of course (=if you finally got that new program/process/structures etc. slowly working again after a year, there's surely already the next new manager arriving and "improving" everything yet again). Of course that leaves the employess not much time anymore for the "real" work, for producing "output", other than statistics and paper mountains, but oh well, when the company will finally break down completely it certainly will not be due to bad "planning", that was improved to perfection! The managers' statistics show it's a most successful and efficient enterprise, getting yet more efficient every year, whow! cool smiley
Summary: I don't really mind if the KM developers use their time for developing instead of planning and timelining tongue sticking out smiley What would be nice though is to occasionally get a current vague guess of the situation... Although at the moment I think it's rather clear, some bugs left yet but quickly approaching beta version, yeah! grinning smiley

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: guenter
Date: September 03, 2010 02:21AM

Since SoerenB asked for comments.

It might be a cultural oddity of mine, but I find posts with a demanding sound like "Seamonkey has and when do K-Meleon devs get it going..., or I want it urgent" somewhat odd if not more.

I hope for the future but I am grateful for what I got in the past. I am grateful that Dorian, kko, alain, desga2, jsnj, disrupted, Mark307, Hao (&CCF ppl), Fred, siria, JamesD, Matt... (just to mention in random order a few current contributors) and many others with them and before them also such as Ulf... (see the about: page for some more) maintained up to now a line of browser variants that I want to use.

Last not least. I hope for the best but I have seen a number of devs going away to Linux or loose interest. I do not take for granted that there is someone that reads that "something is wanted urgent". smiling smiley

BTW. IMHO we have to accept that progress is only made when skilled ppl have time and want to contribute. We had to wait till desga2 had time to fix the chrome items that were broken.

From one of kko's last mails 1/2 year or more ago I know that he has got a new job and little time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 02:40AM by guenter.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: desga2
Date: September 03, 2010 03:11AM

Quote
4td8s
well I did get a chance the latest KM 1.6 pre-beta and tested it out on some of my machines. there are some things that need to be worked out on KM 1.6 though.
What things?

Quote
4td8s
but the folks who make the next generations of Firefox and Seamonkey browsers have proposed timelines/schedules, even though they may not always follow them because things happen that can be out of their control. at least I have some sort of idea of their progress.

it's called "planning"; the most successful people in this world do careful planning and at least have a timeline/deadline to meet their goals in life.

I can give you one timeline/deadline schedule:

Upcoming Releases
Name Scheduled Release Date
K-Meleon 1.6 Beta This weekend (Tentative), probably next weekend.
K-Meleon 1.6 Final When Translations are ready, probably in two months.
K-Meleon 1.7 Never?

This isn't a joke, look that I don't type any smile icon.
The state of K-Meleon project is really serious.
Currently the Project is slowed, we want realease K-Meleon 1.6 Final, but the future is unknown.
The Project will be probably in standby/hibernation some time after K-Meleon 1.6 final be realesed.
We not want that K-Meleon Project died, but his developement is each time more difficult and requires more time.

I hope that K-Meleon community has enough patience.
Greetings.

K-Meleon in Spanish

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: ndebord
Date: September 03, 2010 12:02PM

Quote
desga2
Quote
4td8s
well I did get a chance the latest KM 1.6 pre-beta and tested it out on some of my machines. there are some things that need to be worked out on KM 1.6 though.
What things?

Quote
4td8s
but the folks who make the next generations of Firefox and Seamonkey browsers have proposed timelines/schedules, even though they may not always follow them because things happen that can be out of their control. at least I have some sort of idea of their progress.

it's called "planning"; the most successful people in this world do careful planning and at least have a timeline/deadline to meet their goals in life.

I can give you one timeline/deadline schedule:

Upcoming Releases
Name Scheduled Release Date
K-Meleon 1.6 Beta This weekend (Tentative), probably next weekend.
K-Meleon 1.6 Final When Translations are ready, probably in two months.
K-Meleon 1.7 Never?

This isn't a joke, look that I don't type any smile icon.
The state of K-Meleon project is really serious.
Currently the Project is slowed, we want realease K-Meleon 1.6 Final, but the future is unknown.
The Project will be probably in standby/hibernation some time after K-Meleon 1.6 final be realesed.
We not want that K-Meleon Project died, but his developement is each time more difficult and requires more time.

I hope that K-Meleon community has enough patience.
Greetings.

desga2,

I would argue that Mozilla Corp. has made it much more difficult for third party developers to use the Gecko Engine. More stuff built-in, more stuff to be removed.

No answer here to your cry for help I'm afraid to say, nor any answer to those who think in terms of Mozilla Corp. and its 80 million budget, funded mainly by Google.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: chinarobin
Date: September 03, 2010 12:25PM

i can understand that as i see firefox updating so frequently and seems change a lot more after fx4.

i am still using km with some bugs, all i want to say is a big thanks to all those who donate your time and hard work to this project.

i become a little sad when i happen to see desga2's words.

wish...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 12:30PM by chinarobin.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: Fred
Date: September 03, 2010 03:52PM

K-Meleon 1.7 seems possible to me.
It uses Gecko 1.9.2.x.
As long as Firefox 3.6 is supported, which uses
Gecko 1.9.2.x, updates should be possible.
Firefox 4.0, which is due to replace 3.6 in
October or November, uses Gecko 2.0 which does
not work together with the existing k-meleon.exe
of KM 1.7.
So the future of K-Meleon lies very much in the
dark, as soon as Firefox stops support for FF 3.6.x .
I do not know, how difficult it is, to adapt
K-Meleon to Gecko 2.0, but lets hope that it
will be possible.
We had a similar situation, when Mozilla changed
from Gecko 1.7 to 1.8 a couple of years ago, and
development went on when Dorian came to help us.
May be he will succeed again to keep K-Meleon
alive this time.

Fred

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: ndebord
Date: September 03, 2010 09:08PM

Quote
Fred
K-Meleon 1.7 seems possible to me. It uses Gecko 1.9.2.x.

As long as Firefox 3.6 is supported, which uses Gecko 1.9.2.x, updates should be possible. Firefox 4.0, which is due to replace 3.6 in October or November, uses Gecko 2.0 which does not work together with the existing k-meleon.exe of KM 1.7.
So the future of K-Meleon lies very much in the dark, as soon as Firefox stops support for FF 3.6.x .

I do not know, how difficult it is, to adapt K-Meleon to Gecko 2.0, but lets hope that it will be possible.

We had a similar situation, when Mozilla changed from Gecko 1.7 to 1.8 a couple of years ago, and development went on when Dorian came to help us. May be he will succeed again to keep K-Meleon alive this time.



Fred

I well remember that problems moving from 1.7 to 1.8 and other stuff too, over the years. I also remember how Dorian saved our bacon and KKO made our day with his revival and extension of the Macro Scripting Language to its current robust state, quite remarkable stuff.

Gecko 1.9.3 is FF 4.xxx and that is the sea change. We should go to Paul Allen (the other Microsoft billionaire) and ask for some bucks as, IMO, Mozilla is trying to rid itself of offshoots like K-Meleon.

I'd hate to think that the only decent open source engine out there that developers can use is WebKit.
:-(

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: caktus
Date: September 03, 2010 11:04PM

I have no idea how browser engines work, let alone how they a made. But does anyone think KM may one day have it's own browser engine?

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~


Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: guenter
Date: September 04, 2010 02:07AM

Quote
caktus
But does anyone think KM may one day have it's own browser engine?

Engines are created by big teams else development is too slow - so no chance to have a K-Meleon specific engine.

I do nor care what engine. K-Meleon leanness and configuarbilty attracted me once.

More recently the macro language expanded & gave K-Meleon many extensions at a small price. Means K-Meleon extensions are much smaller usually than the Firefox stuff. smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 02:11AM by guenter.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: JamesD
Date: September 04, 2010 03:15AM
Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: September 04, 2010 04:11PM

Hi,

@ guenter:
Quote

I hope for the future but I am grateful for what I got in the past.

This is a phrase expressing so clearly what I feel - not only in respect of this wonderful piece of software - that I would like to add it to my signature - may I?

Cheers
SoerenB

is: I'm back, on wine in some (!) linuxes - speaking of addiction ...

was: No more own machines, because of addiction.
Don't know when I'll be back to normal ...

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: jmillar
Date: September 05, 2010 01:00AM

Quote
ndebord
Quote
Fred
K-Meleon 1.7 seems possible to me. It uses Gecko 1.9.2.x.

As long as Firefox 3.6 is supported, which uses Gecko 1.9.2.x, updates should be possible. Firefox 4.0, which is due to replace 3.6 in October or November, uses Gecko 2.0 which does not work together with the existing k-meleon.exe of KM 1.7.
So the future of K-Meleon lies very much in the dark, as soon as Firefox stops support for FF 3.6.x .

I do not know, how difficult it is, to adapt K-Meleon to Gecko 2.0, but lets hope that it will be possible.

We had a similar situation, when Mozilla changed from Gecko 1.7 to 1.8 a couple of years ago, and development went on when Dorian came to help us. May be he will succeed again to keep K-Meleon alive this time.



Fred

I remember the problems moving from 1.7 to 1.8 and other stuff too, over the years. I also remember how Dorian saved our bacon and KKO made our day with his revival and extension of the Macro Scripting Language to its current robust state, quite remarkable stuff.

Gecko 1.9.3 is FF 4.xxx and that is the sea change. We should go to Paul Allen (the other Microsoft billionaire) and ask for some bucks as, IMO, Mozilla is trying to rid itself of offshoots like K-Meleon.

I'd hate to think that the only decent open source engine out there that developers can use is WebKit.
:-(

K-Meleon has so far surpassed all hurdles along the way, and the latest pre-beta shows that the lizard is just too attractive to be left to die. I'd like to be a coder in order to be more active in this process! The near completion of a remarkable 1.6 is a major milestone. Mozilla will be supporting the 3.6 series for a while, perhaps one more year if they follow past practice.
It does seem sometimes as if they were trying to shrug other users of the gecko engine away. I'm perfectly happy with current functionality, only vulnerabilities would worry me, and they'll surely make them public just to kill old versions off when the time comes.

I use Km 1.6a4 (now pre-beta) as my main browser, and yes, even in Facebook -but don't use the backspace key to delete anything when writing on the "wall"! It will 'zap' the page away! Use cursor arrows and the delete key instead. ;-) With that minor annoyance everything works for me using KM in FB.

Special thanks to Desga and all who helped to make the options panel fully operational again! It was the last major step left, I would think. 1.6 is almost ready for beta status.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: desga2
Date: September 05, 2010 07:25AM

Thanks to everyone for your encouragement.

Quote
jmillar
I use Km 1.6a4 (now pre-beta) as my main browser, and yes, even in Facebook -but don't use the backspace key to delete anything when writing on the "wall"! It will 'zap' the page away! Use cursor arrows and the delete key instead. ;-) With that minor annoyance everything works for me using KM in FB.

You have solution for this, change the accelerator: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,108280,108309#msg-108309
Or you have others tricks as you said use Delete key instead Backspace key,
also you can use Ctrl+Backspace or Shift+Backspace or Alt+Backspace to avoid the default ID_NAV_BACK accelerator for the Backspace key.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2010 07:27AM by desga2.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: ndebord
Date: September 05, 2010 11:20PM

Quote
desga2
Thanks to everyone for your encouragement.

Quote
jmillar
I use Km 1.6a4 (now pre-beta) as my main browser, and yes, even in Facebook -but don't use the backspace key to delete anything when writing on the "wall"! It will 'zap' the page away! Use cursor arrows and the delete key instead. ;-) With that minor annoyance everything works for me using KM in FB.

You have solution for this, change the accelerator: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,108280,108309#msg-108309
Or you have others tricks as you said use Delete key instead Backspace key,
also you can use Ctrl+Backspace or Shift+Backspace or Alt+Backspace to avoid the default ID_NAV_BACK accelerator for the Backspace key.

desga2,

Ctrl Backspace worked for me. Much thanks.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: siria
Date: September 11, 2010 06:01AM

Am currently struggling with CSS stuff for macros, and stumbling over this:
Gecko 1.9 introduced a new "ime-mode: CSS property controls the state of the input method editor for text fields"
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/ime-mode
No idea if that might have anything to do with probs in input fields, perhaps websites with such a style setting, or perhaps useful in a user-css? Haven't tested, still too busy with KM1.5.x and huge memory probs in KM1.6 in win98, just posting in case anyone may be interested in checking that out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2010 06:02AM by siria.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: siria
Date: September 12, 2010 05:50PM

Minor bug: There's some mixup with the checkmark for "offline" mode...
No idea if that happens only in KM16, but noticed that behaviour only very recently.
All my KM-versions are portable, with the profiles in their own KM-program folder. So I thought they should work completely independant. And sometimes I'm using KM1.54 and KM1.6 side by side, or also alternatingly, wildly switching around. And very often set a version "offline" before closing it, has to do with my macro stuff experimenting and often over 40tabs open tongue sticking out smiley

Now often when I start KM1.6, the offline-state is shown wrong. It looks checked, yet loads happily everything fresh from the internet. Toggling on-off again 'repairs' it. Obviously at startup it's looking in different places to check if the browser shall start offline, and if it shall show the offline-checkmark.
One of those 2 setting-variations must be taken from the last browser-instance that was running, regardless if it was the own version or another, although they should work independently...

EDIT:
Or perhaps KM1.6 is simply not remembering any offline-state...? Had only KM16cp4 open now, set to offline, closed, reopened, was still displaying "offline" but still loading from web. Yeah that's all very vague, should do much more testing, sigh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2010 04:53AM by siria.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: ndebord
Date: September 13, 2010 10:41PM

Siria,

You have more guts than I.... wouldn't even think about running two versions of KM at the same time, although it must be some kind of fun to have the hair on the back of your neck rise up after cross-contamination between versions! <VBG>

In the interests of testing, I'm wondering what other kind of stuff we can do for desga2 as he struggles with chrome and preferences and Dorian struggles with changes in the Gecko engine.

As I'm not and never have been a coder, I've always just sat on the sidelines and tested whatever was asked, but that is as far as it goes for me in these matters.

Gecko 1.9.xxx is so much faster, that I've been very happy with the pre-beta... but not willing to give up 1.8.4 until the new version is gold code.

N

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: JamesD
Date: September 13, 2010 11:51PM

Quote
siria
Or perhaps KM1.6 is simply not remembering any offline-state...? Had only KM16cp4 open now, set to offline, closed, reopened, was still displaying "offline" but still loading from web. Yeah that's all very vague, should do much more testing, sigh.

I concur that 1.6.0a4 has this problem.

I will check on cross between versions. I assume I have to add the command line option "new" to get two versions at once?

Edit:
After I remembered that the "new" should be "-new", I got the testing started. I could find no cross between 1.6.0a4 and 1.1.6 or 1.5.4 versions. The work offline check comes from the value of pref "kmeleon.general.offline". In KM 1.6.0x versions, it appears that the pref is not checked upon startup. If later in the session, you set the value then KM works as it should.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2010 12:24AM by JamesD.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: JamesD
Date: September 15, 2010 01:49AM

I have submitted a bug for the work offline problem
Bug 1265 was submitted!

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: siria
Date: September 28, 2010 01:51AM

Belated Thanx James ;-)

Another difference to KM1.5 is the native AdBlock in K-Meleon: In the old versions (gecko1.8?) that was a setting that switched instantly when toggling and the new setting started working only at the next page load. And it left the pages alone that were already open.

Now in KM1.6 the display update happens automatically as soon as the setting is toggled. That's perhaps a good idea for the current page, but is there any chance to stop it from updating all the other pages too, that were loaded before?? I find that rather stupid, because first I have to wait some seconds while it completes that action on all the unnecessary pages too, depending on tabs number and system speed, and second I really want to toggle AdBlocks only for the current page, to test and possibly unhide false positives. And not get all the ugly ad stuff unhidden on all other already open tabs too :-( I want to decide this "by page", and not by "all or none pages", incl. previously opened ones.
Am afraid it's probably some gecko1.9 thing, but is there a switch or trick somewhere...? The pref name is "kmeleon.adblocking", so perhaps there's a way to change that automatic code?

Thinking about automatic privacy toggles, there seem to be settings that switch instantly, those don't seem to do any automatic display changes:
Cookies, images, javascript (does stop scripts automatically), popups, (objects and DOMstorage).
And then there are other settings where a button click takes several seconds of switching, because they instantly update all open pages automatically, what IMHO is not very usercontrol-friendly:
Adblock and Colors. What if I need different display modes for different pages?
Thankgod the image toggle still works "by page" cool smiley

One thing that I'm wondering about for years already is the animation toggle: I need that rather often (performance-related), and each switch forces me to wait some seconds too, even although there don't seem to be any automatic display updates *confused*

Hoping for some hidden pref...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 01:57AM by siria.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: panzer
Date: October 06, 2010 02:46PM

Under preferences-browsing text is still messed up. i can't set open in a new tab in backround.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2010 02:49PM by panzer.

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: panzer
Date: October 06, 2010 03:49PM

Did someone made any tests Km 1.6 vs 1.54? In % points, how faster is it on average?

Re: K-Meleon 1.6a4 pre-beta
Posted by: JamesD
Date: October 06, 2010 07:29PM

@ panzer

Can you report the modified date and filesize for the kmprefs.jar file in your prebeta KM please? I don't seem to have a problem with the version that I am testing. The filesize of my kmprefs.jar is 413,420 and the modified date is 8/27/10.

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