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Bitmaps alpha transparency - question
Posted by: Yogi
Date: January 08, 2010 10:46PM

Watching Disrupted's Abstractc-Alpha skin (BTW, nice work Disrupted) reminded me of bitmaps alpha transparency support in K-Meleon 1.5.3.
Just out of curiosity I decided to transform the bitmaps of my Klassic skin & privacy bar accordingly.



That was an easy step and after a few minutes I was done for testing.
Everything was just fine except a minor disfigurement:



I noticed the same disfigurement in Disrupted's Abstractc-Alpha skin as well.

My question, is this a glitch or a design shortcoming?

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Re: Bitmaps alpha transparency - question
Posted by: desga2
Date: January 08, 2010 11:33PM

I think alpha transparency is enabled only for toolbars an not supported yet by bmpmenus plugin (not updated yet).

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: Bitmaps alpha transparency - question
Posted by: Yogi
Date: January 08, 2010 11:52PM

Thanks for clarification!

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: siria
Date: June 11, 2010 06:02PM

Just tested again the new AuraAlpha skin from KM 1.7alpha1 on my ancient win98se, copied over to KM 1.5.4:
Although in the skin folder, when opened with an image program, all the backgrounds look black (perhaps my viewer setting?), the skin transparency has gotten much better now! grinning smiley grinning smiley grinning smiley




Only exchanged the background, sorry, but that appaling gray is just too horrible for my color-loving girls eyes, that destroys the most beautiful skin tongue sticking out smiley Anyway, the rest is all default! grinning smiley

* The Bookmarks/Favorites/Hotlist images produce a black skin background always, also in dropdown menus

* The find buttons at the bottom are black too. This in the "large" skin. Actually in the "small" skin folder they are still the old pink.

* The other MENU icons are all transparent, looking really pretty! grinning smiley

* The 8 buttons in the middle of the second row still show a black background, but only when hovering the mouse over them

* The privacy toolbar is transparent, just has no text cool smiley

And there's just a slight "magic black" on the rounder icons, but guess that's the least worry of us win98 users ;-)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2010 06:32PM by siria.

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: siria
Date: February 13, 2014 03:48AM

Just made a new screenshot of AuraAlpha in KM17a2 and win98se.
Note that the black background works as transparent, there is really NO magic pink needed cool smiley

Only prob is the missing text on the privbar. When I open the bmp in irfanview it appears only black-on-black. My system can't seem to handle gradual transparency or how that's called, only 100% or nothing.
So just guessing: if the text is black like the background, they are simply both displayed transparent. Just a very slightly other shade of black would fix it.



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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: rodocop
Date: February 13, 2014 08:32PM

Yes, even 'transparent transparency' works here as KM 1.6-1.7 does support real transparency - BUT

only for toolbars, configured by toolbars.cfg!

Toolbars, created by macros do not support transparency in graphics files thus really NEEDING magic pink


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74 for test and feedback! Get it there!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2014 08:32PM by rodocop.

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: guenter
Date: February 14, 2014 04:32AM

The last test exes of 1.5.4 already supported partial transparency.

Win 98 does not.

siria. To finish this topic once and for all. When You complained in 2010 I did not know that it was a Win NT function used by the new compilers and SDKs (Windows System Development Kits) that do not support Win98.

This function made good skins by supporting partial transparency possible.

Win98 was written off by Dorian, because Mozilla.org stopped Win98 support. Mozilla had to stop it because MicroSoft dropped support for Win98 in their compilers and SDKs . Mozilla does not maintain or develop Windows compilers and SDKs so they had to drop Win98 when they switched to newer versions of the Windows development software.

K-Meleon.org does not create or maintain any Windows development software either.

You were able to send me on a wild goose chase for many days and hours in 2010.

Now. I sent You the icons. You do the job. Create the skin You want! Not I.

In case the icons I sent You are no good, go and download the original png icons.

If You create a better skin than disrupted and I - then I get a good free skin.drool smiley

Did I make my position in this possessively clear?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2014 04:38AM by guenter.

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: siria
Date: February 14, 2014 05:00AM

Glad we're finally off the 74beta thread at least.

Now just look at my screenshot.
Why don't you see it? The transparency WORKS.
The transparent background is BLACK, not pink, and it works fine.

And the text is black too.
THAT is obviously why the text is transparent too: "Black" is defined as transparent in this bmp.
The black-text-on-black-background is the prob.
Modern systems may be able to differentiate, but older systems would most likely also be able with a tiny workaround:
The only fix that IMO seems to be needed, would just be a slightly different shade for one of those 2 colors.
At least it would be worth a test.

But no, *I* cannot create that test myself, simply because I have no program that can create a *bmp* with a transparency definition in it.
My KM can read and display it, but I cannot create such a bmp-file.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2014 05:02AM by siria.

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: guenter
Date: February 14, 2014 03:29PM

Quote
siria
Glad we're finally off the 74beta thread at least.

Now just look at my screenshot.
Why don't you see it? The transparency WORKS.
The transparent background is BLACK, not pink, and it works fine.

And the text is black too.
THAT is obviously why the text is transparent too: "Black" is defined as transparent in this bmp.
The black-text-on-black-background is the prob.
Modern systems may be able to differentiate, but older systems would most likely also be able with a tiny workaround:
The only fix that IMO seems to be needed, would just be a slightly different shade for one of those 2 colors.
At least it would be worth a test.

But no, *I* cannot create that test myself, simply because I have no program that can create a *bmp* with a transparency definition in it.
My KM can read and display it, but I cannot create such a bmp-file.

Auf welchen Skreenshot soll ich was sehen?

Entweder ich kann den Fehler auf XP reproduzieren oder es liegt daran, dass Win98 von Microsoft nicht mit den selben Möglichkeiten ausgerüstet wurde - die Dorian für die von ihm genutzte Transparenzfunktion benötigt.

Der hatte keine Lust die Funktion selbst zu programmieren. Deshalb ist sie so wie sie ist. Und wie sie von MS mit den Entwicklungstools für NT usw. geliefert wurde.

Rücksicht auf Win98 Nutzer brauchte und konnte Dorian nicht nehmen. Das OS wurde von Mozilla.org damals fallen gelassen. Und die ließen es fallen, weil MS es nicht mehr mit seinen Kompilern und SDKs unterstützte.

Ich habe mich 2011 selbst mit der VC8 Entwicklungsumgebung beschäftigt. Und ich musste versuchen heraus zu finden, wie es Dorian gemacht hatte. Damit meine KM Rekompilierung die Unterstützung von Transparenz mindestens so hatte, wie der Offizielle.

Deshalb weiß ich das jetzt - und ich lasse mich nicht wieder wie 2010 darauf ein, die vermeintlichen Fehler in den Ikonen oder der Transparenz beheben zu wollen.


Dorian wollte eine Skin mit PhoenityAuara Ikonen. Also haben disrupted und ich "hier" gerufen und die Skin so gemacht, wie er es für seine Transparenz benötigte. Wenn einer von den Entwicklern einen Wunsch hat, erfüllt ihn jeder andere, wenn er kann.

Wir haben uns damals nicht beschwert, als Dorian ihm vorgeschlagene Ikonen, die wir mit viel Aufwand an Zeit mühsam erstellt hatten, ablehnte und andere Ikonen beruhend auf dem Original haben wollte.

Diese neuen Ikonen waren so gemacht worden, weil sie weniger Anforderungen an die Unterstützung von Transparenz durch das Betriebssystem stellten. Wine konnte das damals noch nicht so. disrupted wusste das wahrscheinlich sogar vorher. Er benutzte BSD. Und er verdiente seinen Lebensunterhalt mit Zeichnen und Graphik.

Dorian wusste sowieso, dass es nicht geht bzw. nicht gebraucht wird.


Als das Gequietsche mit der Transparenz begann, habe scheinbar nur
ich Dummmerchen auf alain (Wine unter Linux), Dich usw. reagiert
und Tage damit verbraucht.

Ich habe Dir jetzt mehrmals erklärt, woran es liegt. Ich kann es ja auf XP nicht einmal reproduzieren oder was ich mache kontrollieren... Begreifst du das?

Kontrollieren was ich mache oder gemacht habe, kann ich unter XP nämlich nur mit MagicPink. Die Version habe ich dir geschickt.

Verstehst Du das Problem jetzt?


Da Du es in MagicPink nicht willst, musst Du jetzt selbst ran. Ich will es nicht mehr und ich müsste ein anderes OS haben, damit ich es tun kann.

Du bist diejenige, die es haben will - und Du hast als einzige noch das OS in Betrieb, mit dem man es tatsächlich machen kann. Und Du kennst Dich mit Graphik aus.

Wenn Du also eine Skin nach Deinen Wünschen haben willst, mach sie Dir.

Und schaue nicht ständig in das Maul von dem geschenkten Gaul.

BTW. Danke. Du bist der einzige Nur-User, der verstanden hat, dass das Gequietsche über Bugs dort total Off-Topik war. Ich bin leider mit meinen Antworten darauf eingegangen - und habe so die Trolle gefüttert.

Dorian will wissen, wer was macht. Mein Announcement: Ich übersetzte nach de-DE war alles, was ich dort hätte schreiben sollen.mad smiley

Die de-DE Übersetzung habe ich fertig. Meine Tochter will / soll sie am WE Korrektur lesen. mfG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2014 03:42PM by guenter.

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: siria
Date: February 15, 2014 01:31AM

My screenshot is in the 5th post on this page. It is openly visible, not just a link.

My whole point is just to avoid the need of double skins for different users, since there isn't any problem at all. The default skin would work perfectly out of the box for all users, it can still HAVE partial NT-transparency, if only the privbar background or the privbar text would have slightly different colors. Changing 1 color would not harm the NT-transparency at all.
I really can't understand why the world would fall apart if there were slightly different colors. It's only two files, privhot and privcold, just a click in the background, pull the color slider a little bit further and save.
Then these NT-partial-transparent images would work fine with or without NT-function on user computers, it wouldn't matter at all.

And no, as already mentioned above, I *cannot* create BITMAP files with a .bmp ending, since my graphics programs keep all telling "not possible to create transparency in the bmp format". Only in other formats like png.

Wegen der Übersetzung, da war doch gestern noch ein Deutscher im beta thread. Der hat doch netterweise auf seiner Homepage stehen, dass er schon ein Dutzend Programme übersetzt hat, und wer noch eines gern hätte, solle sich einfach bei ihm melden. Also Spezialist und KM Fan und perfektes Timing, genialer gehts gar nicht. Sowas fällt bei mir unter 'kleine Wunder' ;-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2014 03:47AM by siria.

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Re: Button transparency - AuraAlpha Skin in Win98SE
Posted by: guenter
Date: February 15, 2014 04:08AM

What gave You the impression that I have such software as bmp converters and graphic programs still installed? If You have doubts. Go search for my lake applets page that used to be number one on Google.de. That page was the reason why I had any tools usabble for making a skin.

Now. I only have Irfan Viewer and that is not going to do this job. And I will not search and install such graphic software again any time soon. It is Your job to do the fixed skin that You demand and You can offer it to Dorian as Your contribution.

You do a png or jpg pic and convert it including transparency if Your software does not support it directly. There was already software to convert to bmp when the bars were done. http://softwaresolution.informer.com/PNG-to-BMP-Converter/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 09:19PM by guenter.

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