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General discussion about K-Meleon. 
web search
Posted by: tyna
Date: May 25, 2007 10:16AM

Hi everyone,
Are there any way to add new search engines to the alredy loaded list on the "web Search Menu"?

Thanks

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Re: web search
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 25, 2007 01:45PM

tyna,

Click on Edit/Advanced Preferences/Browsing/Finding Websites/Search Engines and
looke for the Add Dialog Box at the bottom of the page. A list of search
engines come up. Caveat. The list is far from complete and is missing many of the engines that were previously used and listed on the Wiki.

N

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Re: web search
Posted by: kko
Date: May 25, 2007 03:54PM

The most direct way to the search engine configuration pages is: Tools > Web Search > Configure...

On the tab "Web Search" you will find a number of drop-down lists. Each drop-down list represents an entry in the "Web Search" menu. The selected engine is the engine displayed in the menu. To remove a menu entry, remove the related drop-down list by selecting "Remove this entry" in that drop-down list. To add a new menu entry, add a new drop-down list by clicking the button "Add Entry" at the bottom of the page and select the desired engine.

The list of engines that is displayed in all these drop-down lists can be edited in the tab "Search Engines". To remove or to edit an engine, you have to select it first.


Quote
ndebord
Caveat. The list is far from complete and is missing many of the engines that were previously used and listed on the Wiki.

When a search engine is on the Wiki list, but not in the list distributed with K-Meleon, then this is usually for one of these reasons:
- The search engine is not applicable because it requires more than one parameter
- The search engine is not of general interest
- The search engine was shut down
- The search engine shows adult content

It's the nature of such a list that it's never complete. There are about 80 search engines on the list distributed with km. Can you imagine how much time it takes to try out 80 search engines? As far as I remember, it was not you, ndebord, who invested this time for the 1.0 and 1.1 releases. Think about that.

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Re: web search
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 25, 2007 08:38PM

kko,

Personal insults will not get you very far. If I could code, I would.

As to the issue at hand:

Let's look at a sample of what is missing here and perhaps you can tell me what
criteria you used to exclude these search engines.

Kartoo (A European creation) does NOT report user information to the Department
of Homeland Security, unlike some other search engines.


Scroogle, a well-known privacy-oriented search engine that uses Google and
strips away user information (Google was just in the news for its continuing
desire to store even more personal information on its servers.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroogle

But the privacy issue is just my personal desire. The list of search engines on
the Wiki from previous version of K-Meleon is large and varied. I include just
a few that are currently omitted.

Acronyms
AllTheWeb
Amazon (the standard, older half of A9)
Dmoz
Dumbfind
Excite
Gigablast
Duke (Duke University medical help)
WebMD (similar)
Hoovers (business info)
InfoPlease
Inktomi
MSencarta
Thesaurus
Teoma
UPS

Not a complete list by any stretch of the imagination. In addition, your claim
that engines have been avoided because of adult content doesn't make any sense.
If I use, say the largest and best-known search engine (Google) and type in an
adult term, I would be overwhelmed with pages of links.

P.S. BTW, if, as you claim, it took too much time for you to work through the search engine list, all you had to do was post a query for help in the user forum and I, among many others, would have been more than willing to help out in any way that we could.

N



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2007 08:40PM by ndebord.

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Re: web search
Posted by: guenter
Date: May 26, 2007 01:12AM

Nick,

You and Fred specialize in search engines.
Our devs share their browser with us.

Maybe bookmark the engines You miss. Next time You can then volunteer to check (try out) engines and ship in results - it would be good if ppl that cannot code ( like me & You = I cannot code either ) volunteer to do jobs. That way our devs can concentrate on the things we users cannot do.

IMHO if You will give kko a list with tried engines he will use it with 1.1 + next K-Meleon

This seems more constructive for the future than talking about what is missing now.

p. s. - there are engines with exclusively ... content, or some that do/did not work on a certain day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2007 01:13AM by guenter.

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Re: web search
Posted by: desga2
Date: May 26, 2007 03:21AM

This are included in web search list of KM 1.1:
AllTheWeb
Amazon
Gigablast
Acronyms

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: web search
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 28, 2007 11:14PM

Aside: Using Google straight up is no longer the safest way to use a search engine. Their policies of collecting information have always been suspect [IMO] in that they want to collect and store every piece of information they can on their servers. This from the International Herald Tribune.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/25/technology/25google.php

(which is why I use Scroogle instead)

N

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Re: web search
Date: May 28, 2007 11:48PM

Those who can, code; those who can't, say thank you ;) - and search. I like Clusty:
http://clusty.com/search?

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Re: web search
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 29, 2007 08:40AM

Arual,

Much thanks for Clusty. Have just now added it to KM 1.0.2 as follows: (getting good results with this one).

MENUS.CFG
macros(Clusty)


MACROS.CFG
Clusty{
&OldSearch; $search = "Clusty";
$eng = "http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=";;
&SetSearch;
}

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2007 08:42AM by ndebord.

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Re: web search
Posted by: kko
Date: May 29, 2007 09:44PM

Quote
ndebord
Personal insults will not get you very far.

You are calling this:

Quote
kko
As far as I remember, it was not you, ndebord, who invested this time for the 1.0 and 1.1 releases. Think about that.

a personal insult?
Well, do you think that you're the only one who's allowed to criticize others? And when others are criticizing you then that's a personal insult? Is that your imagination of fairness? Do you think that this will get you very far?

Quote
ndebord
If I could code, I would.

You know very well that you can participate in the project in a lot of ways that do not require any coding skills. And besides that, your postings here are demonstrating that you're not so unskilled as you pretend to be.


Quote
ndebord
Let's look at a sample of what is missing here and perhaps you can tell me what criteria you used to exclude these search engines.

As for the criteria, I dislike to repeat myself. Reread my first post and answer yourself (only one note: I've made the default list one year ago for the 1.0 release. Consequently, engines that have been added to the Wiki at a later time cannot be on this list). Since you haven't taken much care to create your list of examples (two thirds of the engines you mention are on the default list or they aren't on the Wiki list either), I see no need to go into detail.

Quote
ndebord
In addition, your claim that engines have been avoided because of adult content doesn't make any sense. If I use, say the largest and best-known search engine (Google) and type in an adult term, I would be overwhelmed with pages of links.

Is that meant to insult my intellect now, or what? I mean, when you're not holding me for completely dumb, it ought to be clear that I'm talking about 'search engines' which are actually porn sites and which are (possibly) showing explicit content on their result pages although you haven't searched for that.


Quote
ndebord
P.S. BTW, if, as you claim, it took too much time for you to work through the search engine list, all you had to do was post a query for help in the user forum and I, among many others, would have been more than willing to help out in any way that we could.

It's rather cheap to say that now. And also rather inappropriate. I'd like to remind you that k-meleon development is driven by a team. As long as you have no insight into this team, you can hardly judge what the individual members of this team are doing. And thus you're not qualified to tell me what I could have done and what not. That's not only unfair in respect to me - as well as the others, I can only do what my time permits and I had to focus on more important things - it's also unfair in respect to desga2, since he worked through the list this time. And he did not need any invitation. Nobody asked him to work through the list (at least not me). He simply did it.


Some final thoughts:

The search engine list used by Advanced Preferences, is stored in a file called search.xml (search.cfg in km 1.0) which is located in the user's profile directory. This file is totally under the user's control, just like the bookmarks.html. Users can add, edit and remove search engines as they can add, edit and remove bookmarks. The default file is only used when you create a new profile. Thus, users will not benefit from updates to the default files when they don't create new profiles. And when they create new profiles, most users will anyway reuse their old search.xml (or search.cfg) once they've edited it, just as they will reuse their old bookmarks.html once they've created their own bookmarks. The purpose of these default files is only to provide some useful examples. The selection of these examples is always arbitrary and the collection can never be complete.

From my point of view, a discussion about what engines are in the default search.xml is as pointless as a discussion about what links are in the default bookmarks.html - it simply doesn't matter because the sense and the purpose of these files is that users make them fit their needs. If you wanted to share your search engines, also those of special interest, I'd suggest to create a new list in the Wiki. Users could then copy the engine names and URLs from the Wiki and paste them into the related dialog in Advanced Preferences to add the desired engines to their configuration. In my opinion, this would be more beneficial than adding countless engines to the default search.xml that are only useful to a split fraction of users and that actually prevent most users from finding what they're most frequently looking for. You will hardly improve usability by drowning users in a sea of engines. Can't we simply let the users decide themselves what engines are useful to them? Just as is it was best practice with the old search macros?

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Re: web search
Posted by: ndebord
Date: May 29, 2007 10:51PM

kko,

Although I've never coded for K-Meleon, I have been a supporter of this user-friendly browser for longer than you've been around here. That, as they say in horseshoes, counts for nothing except perhaps perspective. And that perspective says the following to me. You've done yeomen's work with the macro system, but your faqs are less than user friendly. Just my two cents worth here.

Finally, we've had this conversation before when I tried to talk to you about user friendly faqs and you got upset. So I would definitely say this is personal with you. Remember I was answering a third party's post and you jumped in with both feet: "It was not you, ndebord, who invested this time for the 1.0 and 1.1 releases. Think about that."


I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. Suffice to say I do not think you are unintelligent, just a tad difficult and more than a little defensive.

As you have so eloquently pointed out more than once, I am not part of the K-Meleon team and all things considered, have no desire to become part of it. As you have brought desag2 into this discussion, I want to say to him that I did not know that he was responsible for the inclusion list of search engines and if my posts troubled him in any way I apologize.

N

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