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K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew
Date: October 21, 2004 02:24AM

As some of you are already aware, a second version of the beta is now available. We need people to take the time to download and test this beta. Please download and install this in a completely empty directory. If you discover bugs or have
questions, please provide a full report including steps to replicate your problem and the OS you are using.

The following list of items were fixed from the first version of the beta. Of particular importance are confirming the fixes in the unverified list. If they are not confirmed fixed, the developers will back out those fixes to avoid causing bugginess in the final release. The verified list includes items checked by at least one of the developers. Check them yourselves to confirm that they are really fixed!! A full list of beta bugs and fixes are available here:

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?id=Beta09

Unverified:
* Cache doesn't clear cleanly
* Opening a web-page via CTRL+O opens the file from IE cache
* Close layer button closes wrong layer (this problem was reported as windows version dependent which means that we need more than one tester!)
* Missing Referer Headers (not a single comment on this one. This will be the first item that is backed out if no one says that this "fix" works)
* Save Page As... Problems / File - Save Problems

Verified:
* about: links to relnotes08.php
* Arrow Keys Don't Scroll
* Cut and Copy don't work
* Error message displays when viewing image in its own window
* Javascript Console clean-up
* k-meleon.exe.manifest is not removed on uninstall
* Spelling error in installer

You can download version 2 of the beta from here:

http://kmeleon.sf.net/files/beta/kmeleon09b2.exe

I can't emphasize enough the importance of your feedback in testing the browser!

Thank you,

Andrew

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 21, 2004 06:07AM

I decided to try the Oct 20 twin of my Oct 18 0.9b beta 2, so I could have a brand new one to test. I was sleepy when I installed it. The two "sibling" folders' names were the same except for their dates: K-M 0.9b beta 2 (Oct 20-04).

-- K-M caught my error on install, with a "Are You Sure...." message.

Please let the devs know this worked perfectly. An excellent safeguard.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 21, 2004 06:10AM

Sorry; meant to say I had given it the OK to put Oct 20 right into Oct 18. K-M caught my error and warned me, so it didn't happen.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew
Date: October 21, 2004 06:39AM

This is not a different release from the 18th - it's just now being announced formally. This is the same version that jsnj announced earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 21, 2004 08:34AM

Oh, that's okay. That's why I called it a "twin". Your announcement was clear.

--Because I've been trying all sorts of things to figure out my crash problems, I just thought I'd set up this one as "October 20" beside "October 18". I knew they were identical, but it was a good way to have a nice clean copy of the build.

Thanks a lot. Very much appreciated. :-)

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew
Date: October 21, 2004 09:42AM

Carson,

OK. Sounds like were on the same page. Happy testing!

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: marcIv
Date: October 21, 2004 10:53AM

how can you rely on the "test results" without any details on the system configuration and the software environment. this guy is running XP with all imaginable services unable, and on top of that bunch of crap(ZoneAlarm,AntiVir Personal,Spyware Blaster)in real time. All this alone can smoke the box.
I never seen km brought down OS. memory leak can froze km. shut it down, restart and you're as new.
you just waste lots of your time in this case.
guys should provide not just type of OS, but exactly what apps are running, specifically all "anti" crap.
otherwise its useless.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew
Date: October 21, 2004 07:42PM

marcIv,

Point taken. However, if Carson is able to identify a specific plugin that is contributing to his problem, it's something we can look into further. If he isn't able to isolate it, we may be able to chalk it up to his system configuration.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: ra
Date: October 22, 2004 03:33AM

Andrew et all,

just wanted to point some of your attention :-) to a bug I submitted today: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/bugs/viewbug.php?bugid=715

And although 0.9 wasn't intented to do work on the main code as I understand it, I really hope Ulf will find the time to look into that one.

BTW: If you should need a bit more detailed repro-steps: You already got them by e-mail a few weeks ago *g* but I can as well add them to the bug-report (they are kinda long, so...) or post them here if anyone is interested or has problems getting it to repro.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: marcIv
Date: October 22, 2004 10:52AM

on a related note, this is a must
http://isc.sans.org/gdiscan.php

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 22, 2004 12:14PM

Thanks, marcIv. I gave it a try, and it was totally happy with my 2 XPs and my not-in-use ME. Zero reds, except it didn't like the original service pack uninstalls--but there was a note right below saying to ignore that, so I came away happy. :-)

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: ndebord
Date: October 22, 2004 02:35PM

Andrew,

Unverified:
* Cache doesn't clear cleanly

Using Beta 2, the cache does not clear. Using Build 173 it does.


N
Win98se, PIII-600, Disk Cache 8092, Memory Cache 10240

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 23, 2004 03:07AM

More on crashes: I was working with my second (October 20) copy of 0.9b beta 2 this morning, and I have learned a few things:

-- This time I had the bookmark plugin AND the layered windows plugin disabled. I still managed to get a crash, so I think it is fair to say they are not the cause.

-- I also doubt that it has anything to do with dowloading anything. That has been part of my heavy-use testing, but I can say now that crashes do not follow anything to do with downloads. The only way there could be a connection would be if the downloading had some cumulative effect on the browser. I very much doubt that, but you would have more knowledgeable opinions.

-- Time and again, these crashes have occurred very close to a time when I have been using the little red "Close Page" X. Although it functions just fine, I suspect that it may well be unable to handle severe use, one way or another.

This kind of heavy-surfing testing takes a lot of time. If anyone else is interested, it is best when you have a project that would keep you working very hard and fast for 2 to 3 hours. I have worked for an hour without any crash. In half a day, I have sometimes had 6 crashes.

I think downloads could be omitted. Very fast surfing, scanning different sites, moving back, forwards, cancelling slow-rendering pages, and jumping up and down in site hierarchies is what will cause the crashes. It is a good time to do any heavy, fast research projects you might have, where you are checking things quickly.

Slow browsing hasn't caused me problems. I don't think it is the speed. I am guessing that fast browsing simply involves a great many more repeated commands, and sooner or later--my guess is in something related to closing a page and opening the prior one, using the X button--a crash is induced.

If I'm right, it isn't necessarily anything to do with 0.9b per se.

marcIv questioned my setup, which is certainly crucial, plus we likely have drastically different OS configurations. OTOH, he felt:

"this is a must
]http://isc.sans.org/gdiscan.php"

-- whereas it cleared my system perfectly on the first try, with two separate XP installs running on it. So, although that was nice, I would not have felt the test was "a must", because there was nothing on my system to change. Generally speaking, that is the case. I am always glad to get advice about checking on things and making configs work better, and as a result, I have TAKEN a lot of the advice I've been offered. That's why I doubt the problem is in my system.

There was a parallel in Firefox. People using very few extensions tended to criticize the problems the heavy-users of extensions invariably ran into. In K-M, I think only a few people are giving the browser a very very hard workout--it is easier not to. IOW, I think the crashes would show up more often if that's what people were doing.

All of this is just IMHO. You guys are the experts. I'm not criticisizing K-M one bit--it is my favourite browser. I commend you all for creating what may well be the best browser in the world. I'm simply saying that I think something is not quite right, and I am afraid it will show up sooner or later for a number of users.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: jsnj
Date: October 23, 2004 04:45AM

Time and again, these crashes have occurred very close to a time when I have been using the little red "Close Page" X

So you don't get the crashes when middle-clicking to close the layer?

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Al.
Date: October 23, 2004 05:00AM

There was a parallel in Firefox. People using very few extensions tended to criticize the problems the heavy-users of extensions invariably ran into. In K-M, I think only a few people are giving the browser a very very hard workout--it is easier not to. IOW, I think the crashes would show up more often if that's what people were doing.

Looking around after being absent for a while, I'd agree with what you're saying there and also it seems to me at the moment the main problem is distraction: there are too many "unofficial" versions floating around which means that rather than the primary focus being on the beta of the official version, people are being drawn away and using versions of K-Meleon which to be quite frank are out of place at this point in time. I mean unofficial builds based on the "beta" versions? There's nothing to be gained out of that, that's for sure.

In regards to your problem there have been "random crashes" of K-Meleon reported ever since the v0.8. Usually it involves an access violation of some sort, and it usually shuts the browser down. I have advised people in this situation to "copy and paste" the details of the crash from the dialogue into the involved threads here in these forums but that hasn't happened, which makes it hard to file an RFE when you don't have any specific crash data to report. I might also add that my own suspicions lay with the layers plugin, and my usual advice to anybody reporting the crashes was to disable the layers plugin for a while to see if it still happened. Still no reports back after that as well.

Carson next time you get a crash, suss out the details and report them back here so the components involved can be identified.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew_G
Date: October 23, 2004 05:24AM

I just installed the latest beta version 2 and so far it looks good,however, when I click on a URL in the drop down menu in the URL bar the page does not open I have to click on it again in the URL bar in order for it to open.
How do I change it so that the web page opens as soon as I click on the URL in the drop down menu.thanks for your assistance.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 23, 2004 05:27AM

Al, I know what you want, but I'm having a hard time getting it for you.

However, regarding your last advice to disable the layers plugin, if you look way back to the beginning of my post--I know it was too long; sorry--I said, "-- This time I had the bookmark plugin AND the layered windows plugin disabled. I still managed to get a crash, so I think it is fair to say they are not the cause."

@jsnj, I'll go back to middle-clicking and I'll see what I come up with.

The real trouble is, I am making hundreds and hundreds of keystrokes between crashes. I'm also TRYING to go very fast. So, because everything can be just fine for half an hour, even an hour, it usually takes me by surprise.

But, I'll find it--if I possibly can!

Thanks for your help, guys. :-)

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Al.
Date: October 23, 2004 05:31AM

Al, I know what you want, but I'm having a hard time getting it for you.

However, regarding your last advice to disable the layers plugin, if you look way back to the beginning of my post--I know it was too long; sorry--I said, "-- This time I had the bookmark plugin AND the layered windows plugin disabled. I still managed to get a crash, so I think it is fair to say they are not the cause."


Ah apologies, I only glanced over the topmost postings (there's too much catching up to be done on my behalf). If you can catch the error report details it will be most helpful.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 23, 2004 05:32AM

P.S. -- This is over my head, but I know there IS such a thing as recording every keystroke; i.e. having a log file of some sort detail every keystroke automatically. Is this available for testing a browser?

It would be SO helpful!

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Al.
Date: October 23, 2004 05:35AM

If you feel it will help, here's a freeware one:
http://keystrokerecorder.netfirms.com/

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 23, 2004 05:37AM

Excellent! Thank you. I'll give it a try.

--I'll stop posting now, as I have other things I must do this afternoon and evening. :-)

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Al.
Date: October 23, 2004 05:35AM

Hmmm, the freeware one is actually this link:
http://www.spyarsenal.com/keylogger/keylogger.zip

It'll achieve the same results.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: jsnj
Date: October 23, 2004 05:49AM

when I click on a URL in the drop down menu in the URL bar the page does not open I have to click on it again in the URL bar in order for it to open.

I think you mean that you have to click the Go button for it to open. More details in the following Bug thread.

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/bugs/viewbug.php?bugid=313

BTW, after loading the URL into the URL Bar, clicking the new layer button will open it to a new layer/window for anyone who's interested.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: marc0v
Date: October 23, 2004 09:25AM

I hate to do this to Al ; )
but good luck with uninstall
http://www.spyarsenal.com/forums/forum3.html

Carson
go there http://www.blackviper.com/
disable all Services, then we will talk about "anti" crap.
this guy is the best, belive me.

Oh yea. you and your ego. ; )
that link was not for you personally, but for all.
its about recent GDI exploit in jpeg files, very serious staff.
everyone should test it, all you Word lovers. glad you passed.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew
Date: October 23, 2004 09:50AM

Ndebord,

Can you provide some detailed steps on how you determined that the cache wasn't getting cleared? Just so we can duplicate it?

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew_G
Date: October 23, 2004 10:00AM

No jsnj,
I do not mean that I have to click the Go button, I did not say that,when I click on a URL in the drop down menu the URL shows up in the URL (Address) bar and I then have to click on it again in order for it to open. In the three other Browsers that I use the web page opens as soon as you click on a URL in the (Address Bar) URL bar's drop down menu and that's how I would like it to work in K-Meleon.Can it be done? and if so,I would like to know how.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: jsnj
Date: October 23, 2004 10:15AM

I do not mean that I have to click the Go button, I did not say that,when I click on a URL in the drop down menu the URL shows up in the URL (Address) bar and I then have to click on it again in order for it to open.

You mean you have to hit the ENTER key right? Clicking on the URL Bar with your mouse does nothing other than give focus to the address. Anyway, the link I posted shows the discussion about the issue. But there is no way at the moment to have the url open immediately once it's put in the URL Bar from the dropdown list. It wasn't possible in v0.8.2 either. Last time it was like that was v0.7.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Carson
Date: October 23, 2004 10:25AM

Hi, Al, I tried the program, but it records only characters, so it didn't do the job. It was a good try, anyway. I uninstalled it.

marc, thanks again. I like Black Viper too; very cool site. I've used him as a reference for a long time. My apologies to you for my ego. 'Tis true I've been over-posting here. Others may feel as you do, so this is my last. Thanks a lot for your help, though--I appreciated it very much. And it is an excellent browser.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Al.
Date: October 23, 2004 11:23AM

true I've been over-posting here...

Hey I really admire your enthusiasm, it's heartening to see somebody getting as involved as you. Just don't let the comments of others be misconstrued too much as I'm sure most of it is just harmless banter.

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Re: K-Meleon 0.9 Beta - version 2 - FOR TESTING
Posted by: Andrew
Date: October 23, 2004 11:53AM

I'll second that. I'll put up with a lot of postings if the people posting are actually testing things, as you have been Carson.

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