General :  K-Meleon Forum
General discussion about K-Meleon. 
Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: August 26, 2000 08:55AM

There were always battles between the browser giants: Miscrosoft and Netscape. Now Netscape employs Gecko. I saw K-Meleon browser. I am using IE. To those people who are respecting and liking this browser, or Netscape - get a clue.
Seriously. Those of you who are saying "oh, he made it in one day" - whatever.
This is the biggest piece of crap built on dlls that I've seen. I am not even going to start with Nestscape.
The main reason I cannot I use IE, and the only one, is because it supports the latest technologies. For me, XML is essential. I always use DHTML/JS, etc. I am using a lot of XML based languages as well. If Netscape supported them - I'd think about switching. But no, NS has switched to Gecko, following Mozilla, skipping a version to keep up, at least in that sense. Netscape has lost the battle. They are far behind. More and more people are starting to see that IE support more things. The browser speeds realistically are almost identical. Give me a break. If you are somewhat related to programming, and think you 'know something' - please, don't give me any BS. MSIE 5 rules. XML owns. Or otherwise, if you are going to start shitting me - you are not close to understanding these things. The only thing that matters is XML and DHTML. If Netscape supported that, developer's and customer's lives would be much easier. Give me a break. This is bull @!#$. I cannot use collection, half of the styles, and having other problems with Netscape. Why can't they fucking keep up to speed?

As for K-Meleon, it is an interesting improvisation that is based on other's people's coding, like the two largest and only parts: Gecko by someone else, and widgets from someone else. Very interesting. You know what? If you've changed the GUI and used the browser control (done in 5 minutes if you are bored) - you'd have something that people would like much more. I redid my IE completely to suit my needs. Anyway.. so long. E-mail me if you want to say anything...

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RE: Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: August 26, 2000 08:57AM

Oh yeah, and almost forgot, those who actually use this thing - get a life. Unless you HAVE TO test it, at least use the shitty Netscape, which, regardless of what I've asid before, is 10x better than this thing, and if you are real, use IE 5.5.
Laterz;.

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RE: Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: Tony K.
Date: August 26, 2000 10:38PM

Eh bill gates, can't you take any compition. Now that you have heard the official story from this
microsoft employee. In this world of BUG's what is acceptable and what is not. I choose not to
pay the evil empire for their buggy system's and get paid for supporting their garbage.

The problem for most newbies is that they don't understand the technology. Sure their are
a few bugs, but fewer than I.E. (any version). Keep up the good work, and show the big guys
that "yes, you don't have to be a billionaire corp to produce a good product."

The truth is Assholes On Line is just a little bit worse than Microshaft. they'll both f.. you for
a buck and claim it isn't their fault


Kick ass and f... those Bas....s

good luck

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RE: Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: debaser
Date: August 27, 2000 02:52AM

deuSsrv...

This person built a browser by using the current state of the art rendering engine (don't even tell me that IEs "Universal Canvas" is any competition), and then displaying it using the OS's native display widgets. What is your problem with that?

------"For me, XML is essential"------

That's right - for YOU. Most people don't care about XML. Most people want a fast, standards-complient web browser to surf web sites.

------"The only thing that matters is XML and DHTML"------

Um, more like the only things that matter are HTML and JavaScript, the rest is fluff. Some of it is cool fluff....but fluff nonetheless. Sure XML is cool to interface with databases and such, and DHTML rocks, and I'm SURE that this browser will eventually have support for these things, but lets just get a browser that renders standard HTML tags properly first, okay?

------"Why can't they fucking keep up to speed"------

Becase Netscape does not have direct access to the people who WROTE the operating system. I do believe that IE is a better browser than Netscape, I wont argue there, but I also believe that it is due to the fact that it is embedded in the OS. Quick load time?...it loaded at startup, man!...thats your quick load time, ability to render office documents right in the browser?...who wrote office? c'mon.

------"it is an interesting improvisation that is based on other's people's coding"------

Welcome to open-source, bitch

------"I redid my IE completely to suit my needs"------

This guy re-did Gecko to suit his. The difference? He shared.

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RE: Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: Foo
Date: August 27, 2000 07:54AM

My God! This is an *alpha* release!

Get a life!

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RE: Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: Lance Hall
Date: August 27, 2000 02:43PM

Ok i thought i would chime in here. Im and IE user, and for good reason, microsoft just knows how to develop internet technologies. Now dont' go calling me a bill gates or microsoft lover, because im not. I hate most of the things microsoft does, but as for IE, XML, ASP and some of the .NET stuff, im all for. And if anyones says XML isn't important then they oviously have no concern for structure sensitive date. Im a developer at jabber.org and well xml is the foundation for everything we do. And Linux embedded XML technologies are the future of communication. Im true to this 100%. Now, as for Kmel, i like it, but i wouldnt use it for my primary browser. Im not going to knock his efforts for making Kmel, because i think he took gecko and made it into a less bloated browser... But gecko does need to do some catch up in some areas, and we all know what those are. Well thats all im going to say.

Lance Hall, webmaster@pyzr.com JID: lance.pyzr@jabber.org


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RE: Mozzilla/Gecko? GET LOST!
Posted by: TheHog
Date: August 27, 2000 07:09PM

DeusSrv, get a life. Ever heard of a right to choose? You like IE, ok, use it, who fuckin' cares, let other people chose what they want. Browse and let browse, dude. And learn to read: this K-mel is ALPHA. Now go buy some "PC for dummies" and read what ALPHA and what open-source means, mmkay? Obviously you don't know crap about coding.

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Just a troll, learn to ignore
Date: August 28, 2000 06:24AM

Don't you guys know how to ignore an obvious troll? Maybe I'm used to it, I use Opera as my main browser and see this type of thing on a regular basis. But this was really obviously just a troll and not worthy of a reply.


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RE: Just a troll, learn to ignore
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: August 29, 2000 08:42AM

Ok people.
There are only two people I agree with here, that's Lance Hall, and debaser.
The rest of you - grow up. Yes this is a world of choices, no one argues. But please - give me a break. I am not going to use this browsser JUST because it's open source, or because some guy spent his timemaking it. I am going to use what is best on the market. I can't stand many MS products. Take interDev for example. Thing crashes more than half-a-dozen times on me. But there is nothing better for me that lets me do ASP, XMl, VB, DHTML all within VSS - all nicely integrated and working. Thing is, MS delivers. They deliver lates internet technologies. Those who don't care about XML - you are truly behind... There are some good places to read about it, even on MSDN. Oh, and BTW, has anyone noticed that all that MS products support is very well documented on MSDN? Need a tag and it's attributes? Not a problem. Need it's events? Methods? Styles? Not a problem. Now, how about VML? Anyone heard of it? Hopefully. It's really nice, saves a lot of time, nice layouts with it, not to mention text-paths. Possibilities are end-less. Oh, and how about VRML? The 3D modeling language.. Did you know it is XML based? As well as VML? To get started get somethihng like VML Bible..
--
Yeah, and BWT, I am not MS employee or in any way affiliated with MS. I am just working for a start up company. We employ wireless web (WAP) devices and ASP.. Shared XML.. Full freedom.. I just saw this browser somewhere.. Decided to take a look..
---
Another note: XML will not be supported. Everything ties in Gecko. Maybe you'll rewrite the dll for this engine and make it work - but it's a tough task..
----
Rattlesnake: You definately live on principles with no life.. Come on.. Opera? That thing is ****. It's obsolete..
Oh yeah, also, all the people who say that I don't know crap about coding- you make me laugh. I am using XML, and you're saying that XML is nothing?! hah
And for a final thought: It doesn't mean that this browser is good, or you should back it up with claims that this is Alpha, you are limited by Gecko, by the widgets this thing uses, etc etc, although this IS open-source. I don't back anything that doesn't fiit my needs.
The ONLY reason I see people using this over ANYTHING else (except Opera) is because of its slim size.. But come on, how slow do you need to be in the first place. You'd need a broswer to get here, chances are it's better than this one.
We live in the world of logic, not principles. "Evil empire," "open source," "alpha version," - grow up.. Maybe then you'll understand to make logical decisions, not based on emotions for the open-source community.
----
BTW: go to upside.com/ebiz... Read XML b2b article..
------------------------------
LOL - "From the guy, who prefers 'Evil Empire's' Browser MORE!!!"
-------------
Also, please post serious replys, and not kid-talk "because I hate it, because I want it" etc...
If you have something worthy to say - say it.

deusSrv. [*.12.*.122 aka no ping reply]


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RE: Just a troll, learn to ignore
Posted by: Gecko
Date: August 29, 2000 12:30PM

Alrighty, sometime I just have to speak out to shed some light.

XML:
Where did you people get the notion tha XML won't be supported in mozilla? What do you think the UI is written in? Well it's written in XUL (XML User Interface Language). What does that mean? It means Mozilla WILL render XML docs. It has to, or you wouldn't even be able see the UI! How does it render XML? For the lowdown look at:

www.mozilla.org/rdf/doc/xml.html

Is XML the way of the future? you better believe it. There's not doubt. That's why Mozilla supports it. It's also why they have so much interest from the embeded market. All those pages you're writing for wap, well the cell phone viewing them are going to me Mozilla!

Speed:
All I can say is that I cringe at using IE again after mozilla. I admit that IE is a better product than Netscape 4.X. But at college, i stuck with Netscape because I was on a T1 and the security risk far outweighed the speed. But at home, I'd use IE because it was just plain faster. Now mozilla leaves IE in the dust. I just can't stand using anyting else. And yes IE has crashed on me more times that mozilla in the last month. And that's on Win2K! I have found that the people who complain the most about mozilla don't know jack about what they are doing.


Okay so enough about that. One thing that I would like to point out is that deusSrv is right about giving props to Christophe for writing this thing in one day. He didn't! Give more credit to the mozilla developers who have created a great, fast, modular browser to allow developers to wrap it in whatever they want. So show a little love to the mozilla developers. they've taken a lot of slack for all the great work that they've done.

Oh, and it's going to suck for deusSrv to rewrite all his pages when Microsoft wises up and adopts Gecko as their browser engine =)

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RE: Just a troll, learn to ignore
Posted by: (I use them both btw.)
Date: August 30, 2000 08:17AM

I don't quite get you.
with IE you're happy, we're not, for variety of reasons.
(mine is that IE won't let you specify your own font settings like you can on Netscape. and IE is unlikely to change this for a
foreseeable future)

I don't care about all the geek stuff you freaks gotta say, but the thing puzzling me is that why do you have to go about preaching that to other people? does that make you comfortable? feel superior? is that your idea of good citizen's duty or something to share your cleary amazing knowledge with the uneducated?

to me IE is something that won't even let me change one of the most basic setting to enhance my browsing (my sight isn't too good).
and MS will not listen. full stop.


that's it from me. have a nice day smiling smiley

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I had to speak out!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: September 01, 2000 02:42AM

Guys.. come on.
First, to the guy of the last message, if you don't know how to change font settings- it is your fault. If you can't figure out how to do that - I am sorry [decline to comment]. If you can't, at least look in help or something..
Anyway;
As for Gecko - I am not truly sure that Gecko is faster. If it's faster, then by milliseconds of time, which is not too essential to me. Also, the technology that MS supports/develops is huge, the amounts and resources available aren't matched even close by Netscape. Mozilla developers - thanks, but really, until you get support (FULL support on IE level) for XML, which you don't yet, I have nothing to talk about. XML is the future, and you still don't support it. How long has IE 5 been out? Since last year or something? Long live XML. As for IE crashes: I think that (open minded, honest) that IE doesn't crash too often. It rarely does on me. Thing that pisses me off is InterDev that dies like every our. But that's not the topic. If IE crashes - you suck. It works fine on Win2K Prof. at work, and Win2K server at home. Not a problem. Haven't noticed any crashes. Netscape - same thing.. Have to be honest. But I really hate Netscape. People @ Netscape piss me off. Really. Their software is shitty, they are now relying on Mozilla, which they didn't develop, on Gecko, which again they didn't develop, etc etc. What I love about MS is that everything is perfectly integrated. If you have all MS server, and lets say with Linux firewall 1, you should have the ultimate system. As for performance (of SQL lets say), latest stats show that SQL 7 outruns Oracle and DB2...
Anyway.. Back to work.

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RE: I had to speak out!
Date: September 01, 2000 03:48AM

aha, exactly the kind of cunt I thought you are.

thought I was thick enough to not realise clicking on tools -> Internet options then the font button takes me to font setting dialogue huh? Then think again before making remarks like that. Because it doesn't work in the way I need it to. I f you're referring to something in the registry please do yourself a favour to realise that not everyone in the world is as sad ( sorry, technical minded ) as you.

btw.
>But I really hate Netscape. People @ Netscape piss me off.
totally agreed. that's why we got K-Meleon innit?

Now you're not trying to open a tin of 'M$ sux' worms are you?
I don't think you'll ever understand why other people don't just use the best thing in the world so please do us all a favour and go flip yourself.

(I don't think the others here as stupid as you or me to reply to you so please post no more. if you really can't keep it in yourself then feel free to mail me.)

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: jAt
Date: September 01, 2000 05:38AM

Doesn't deusSrv stick around a long time in a forum that he apparently has no use for? ... hmmm ... when I don't like something and know I'm right, ... I leave. Me thinks the dope doth protest too much ...



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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: September 01, 2000 07:30AM

Hah...
The only reason I ever check this thing is because I once in a while get tired of work and smoking, so I click the link to this, and see what some people post. Although the sight of doesn't do me any good - I don't see any (err, there is one/two) intelligent posts.
--
jAt - Learn English before posting in it. Kids usually say "Me thinks ... doth ..."
You get the idea..
--
Previous guy: You didn't describe your font problem clearly enough. As I understand it, you can just go to Display settings, and modify the fonts for applications from there. I can't stand Netscape hard-to-see idiotic fonts.. Aren't we supposed to focus on user experience here?
--

BTW: If you type some text in the textarea, then switch to a different app, you can no longer type in here. Although you can go Back, and Forward, this isn't the solution. Also, implement ALT+[Left/Right Arrow] for back and forth movement, as well as a backspace shortcut for that.

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: September 01, 2000 07:36AM

Why are text areas centered?
HAte NetCrap.
And America Off Line.
And people who work at both.
Generally hate ICQ programmers, for producing a useful, but shitty coded program. '
Like MS for latest integrated technology.
Whatever..

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: September 01, 2000 07:40AM

...

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: who cares
Date: September 01, 2000 08:19AM

What the hell is this guy smoking? Gecko does not support XML? IE supports it better? How about some proof? You sound like some idiot who believes everything Microsoft says, and doesn't really have a clue about anything.
My only gripe about K-Meleon is its weird refernce to some "GNU Private License". For gods sake take some time to learn what GPL really is. It is the General Public License(its not GNU!) and the programmer just cut and pasted the stuff with its recommendations on how to use it. Whoever made this obviously put a lot of effort into it, they ought to put at least a tiny bit of effort into understanding the license.

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: September 02, 2000 04:47AM

OMFG... "who cares" - you're an idiot. I don't belive everything MS says, I USE IT ON DAILY BASIS, I WRITE ASP/XML WEB APPS. And Gecko + Mozilla DON'T support XML as of today. So what have YOU been smoking. F*** the GPL & GNU. Like I have time to waste... Hah. You're the one who doesn't have a clue about XML/MS and belives everything Linux/GPL/GNU community says. Learn about things, don't take my word or others for it. Get Netscape and IE (and this thing) and write some XML.. See which one renders it.. Now take ASP/CGI to generate it.. Write some XSLs// Saves time, doesn't it? Eye openner to those who don't know @!#$ about XML or anything based on it. People are so naive these days, living in a their own built world based on stupid 10 year old BS principles.. Time to grow up kids. And start learning, and not just saying.
-Peace out.

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: Dan
Date: September 02, 2000 06:07AM

OOh! A troll. I've never seen one of those before.

Use IE 5.5. The kmeleon developers could care less.

> -Peace out.

Right.




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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: Nanaki Son of Seto
Date: September 03, 2000 07:26AM

OK, this is off topic for this conversation but:

to the person who said you can change font setting on Netscape, I am forced to use Netscape at my CIS classes because that's about all ther is on Solaris that the CIS dept. will bother with. I spent about 1/2 with 3 people trying to make it bigger, only to fail.

So, exactly how do you do it? It took me ~45s to figrue it out on IE...

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: deusSrv
Date: September 03, 2000 07:42AM

I do use IE5.5.. I've said before my reasons behind it, not going to go and explain it all over again. Read up.


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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: Who Cares
Date: September 03, 2000 08:35AM

IE 5.5's conformance to the XML and HTML standards is abysmal at best. IE 5.5 for the Macintosh is not bad though. What are you DuesSrv? Some helpDesk tech with too much time on your hands?

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: vertiloto
Date: September 03, 2000 09:27AM

for God sake *ignore* the smelly little troll.

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RE: I had to speak out!
Posted by: Jan
Date: September 04, 2000 08:17PM

I feel so sorry for you!

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Enought Already
Posted by: Neil
Date: September 05, 2000 11:59AM

Hmm...Im really puzzled on why everybody here must perceverate on whether IE or Gecko is better. This arguement is alot like this, "Whats Better? Mac or WinTel?" I mean really who cares if you want to use IE then by all means use it. and if u want to use Opera use that. I also really hate Netscape(It crashes far too often) but keep in mind that NetScrape did NOT solely code Gecko. Most of gecko is written by the OSDN(Open Source Devolopers Network) and other freelance coders. Im not saying whether or not Netscape, IE, or Gecko is better(Although I am partial to Gecko). Okay im done now, as if I go on ill probally end up ranting for every. Oh and sorry for any misspellings, Im writing this in a rush.

Bye Everybody(Play Nice!!)
Neil

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RE: Enought Already
Posted by: noodge
Date: September 10, 2000 04:25AM

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jAt - Learn English before posting in it. Kids usually say "Me thinks ... doth ..."

You get the idea..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me guess, deusSrv, you spent all your time in English class masturbating to pictures of Bill Gates. Come on, read some Shakespeare and get a life!

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K-meleon
Posted by: avbsantos
Date: September 11, 2000 06:55AM

A newbie for sure, yet I have experienced the constant crashes with IE5-5, and IE-5, and with Netscape as well. Neoplanet has behaved, but is at times plagued by annoying commercials. Opera, hmmm..? I'll be darned if I'll pay for a browser, and much less for an ISP.

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