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K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: November 28, 2013 05:46PM

Hi folks,

I'm looking for an alternative browser for my Windows 98SE machine. Now I'm using the IE6, but ther are still more and more web sites not supporting it and I get many problems because of it up to system crashes.

There is the last offoicial KM-version 1.5.4 from 5th March 2010 and then some following betas. Now I see there are also some new developments from the last time but I don't know how stable is this. What do experienced KM-people mean I should take as beginner for this change from IE6? Now I'm using this browser, that means I don't need a big comfort, but I would like to have such little problems as possible, especially for the 1st time. To experiment I can later when I get familiary with KM.

Should I take 1.5.4 or the newest version anyway? Or something betwen it?

Thank yousmiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2013 06:03PM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: JamesD
Date: November 28, 2013 06:40PM

Hello Mikk,

While it is true that the last official release of KM is version 1.5.4, there are several new betas that are stable.

I did one of these, and you can get it here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1522294/K-Meleon1.6.0_Beta2dot6_en-US.7z

Most, if not all of the betas do not come with installers. They are in 7-Zip or RAR format. This means that they only have to extracted to a folder and then you must create a shortcut to the file named k-meleon.exe.

Rodocop has a version called Twin which also includes a version of chrome for sites that are really picky about which browsers they allow.

Much newer, but not so finished is the 74 version. I guess you could call it early test version. The display engine in 74 is much newer and most sites will accept it just fine. Not all the supporting features are ready yet.

If you decide to use a beta in 7z format, you can get the 7z program here. http://www.7-zip.org/

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: rodocop
Date: November 29, 2013 02:06AM

Mikk,
as for me, you have to choose between one of the 1.6beta based builds (any from my sig).

To use them in 98 you'll need KernelEx library (very small and unobtrusive addition to Win98, which makes it possible to use newer software on that OS).

_____________________________________
Using K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug / KM-16-S2014
1.6beta2.6 by JamesD
_____________________________________
Recommending K-Meleon Twin+`||`Discuss it!!!
_____________________________________
New KM74 for test and feedback! Get It!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2013 02:09AM by rodocop.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: November 29, 2013 06:18AM

Thanks JamesD and rodocop, both.

@rodocop: Is the KernelEx compelling? I've installed it primary to use the newer versions of Opera with it, possible also Firefox and others but before I could do it I got at some usual application - unfortunately I don't know more now which it was, perheaps some media player (surely not Flash) - crash and over some error messages I could find the reason was KernelEx. Then I switched it generally inactive. Later, as I searched for tips in one forum, one using it too recommended to me (without I told him about my event) to switch it on for every application where necessary separately and only for the time I use this application. And I didn't find the time till now to study this problem.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2013 07:50AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: rodocop
Date: November 29, 2013 01:15PM

sorry, Mikk, I have a very little experience with KernelEx, but it seems that your advisor was right: you have to choose between KernelEx 'on by default' and 'on-demand' (by application) settings.

And there is no guarantee of glitch-free work though. Try different versions of KernelEx with different settings until you'll find the best one. I know many people reporting KM 1.6 working on Win98 with KernelEx, so you have all chances to find good configuration.

_____________________________________
Using K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug / KM-16-S2014
1.6beta2.6 by JamesD
_____________________________________
Recommending K-Meleon Twin+`||`Discuss it!!!
_____________________________________
New KM74 for test and feedback! Get It!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2013 01:15PM by rodocop.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: guenter
Date: November 30, 2013 03:00PM

Quote
Mikk


Is the KernelEx compelling?

I think KernelEx is obligatory if You want to use certain Microsoft *.dll libraries and it is also needed if an application is created with certain Microsoft compilers.

This is AFAIK both because KernelEx provides the functionality needed but also because the compilers tell the programs to create an exception if the OS version is too low. In the later case KernelEx prevents that the library or application detects the OS version.

That is not my personal experience but how I understand older posts by people like Siria who used KernelEx to run some K-Meleon 1.6/1.7 versions. If I remember correctly they used KernelEx permanently for all programs like You would use a system update provided by Microsoft.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2013 03:06PM by guenter.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: rodocop
Date: November 30, 2013 03:38PM

Mikk,
are you using unofficial update packs for 98?

If not try one - for example MDCU or UnSP

But look, some patches (like IE6-SP1) may cause crashes while using KernelEx with Firefox (or maybe K-Meleon).

_____________________________________
Using K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug / KM-16-S2014
1.6beta2.6 by JamesD
_____________________________________
Recommending K-Meleon Twin+`||`Discuss it!!!
_____________________________________
New KM74 for test and feedback! Get It!

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: December 02, 2013 04:52PM

Quote
rodocop
are you using unofficial update packs for 98?

If not try one - for example MDCU or UnSP
I thought allready about it but till now I don't. I didn't found free and quiet time enough to think it over, what does it bring concretly, also which risks. The only what I think to know: the text editor (Notepad) what I've seen is not that what I need (as simple as possible - principally exactly the same as what I have now but without the limit of 60 kByte and with the now missing function search & replace; I think in XP it is so but not exactly in W2k).

Quote
rodocop
But look, some patches (like IE6-SP1) may cause crashes while using KernelEx with Firefox (or maybe K-Meleon).

I think I'll take in the 1st step the 1.5.4 and look what works and what doesn't with it. Than when I have this overview I'll install one of the 1.6s in the next step and than I'll also to experiment with the KernelEx.

Quote
JamesD
...do not come with installers. They are in 7-Zip or RAR format. This means that they only have to extracted to a folder and then you must create a shortcut to the file named k-meleon.exe.
1.5.4 comes with an installer. But what is the advance of it? I find the Zipped format easier. Is there anything what I miss to see here?

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 02, 2014 11:45AM

Today it's 1 month I've installed the 1.5.4 and in use and it proves very good inside of the known limits of the possiblities of this "antike" version. I like it really.

Now I see the time comming, to install one of the actual 1.6's. I see repeated recommended the 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD as the first (under the links "K-Meleon-1.6.17db+" and "dugbug" from the Rodocops sig I can only reach the message This shared file or folder link has been removed. Think it's a mistake? No worries: Just email the owner or get in touch with Box support.).

What is the difference between the JamesD's version and KM-16-S2014 (or also 17db+ anyway if somewhere reachable at all)?

Quote
JamesD
Most, if not all of the betas do not come with installers.
Are there really no betas with an installer? I think somewhere have to read (or experienced myself?), such option has any small advantage against the zipped portable version, used on stationary PC. Unfortuntely I can't more find where it was and which kind of advantage should it be.

And last but not least: Is it possible let any of these 1.6 batas to run as a german version?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 12:52PM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: guenter
Date: January 02, 2014 04:45PM

Quote
Mikk

Quote
JamesD
Most, if not all of the betas do not come with installers.
Are there really no betas with an installer? I think somewhere have to read (or experienced myself?), such option has any small advantage against the zipped portable version, used on stationary PC. Unfortuntely I can't more find where it was and which kind of advantage should it be.

And last but not least: Is it possible let any of these 1.6 batas to run as a german version?

No. Only zipped versions. They simply all have no Packager. So they cannot create an installer. Packager by alain consist of programs and scripts that create the K-Meleon installers.

IMHO there is no advantage to have an installer. Not for experienced users anyway.

Yes. Copy the folder locales from a 1.5.4 German to the 1.6 or 1.7 of Your choice.
Then start the program. Do F2 > Gui Appearance and set the language to German. This changes almost all menus to German. "Almost all" means that there is no German "chrome" translation for 1.6 or 1.7 because that is not available yet. And it will probably never become finished. Since Dorian and the others that work on development started on a 1.8 based on Mozilla GRE 25 User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:25.0) Gecko/20100101 K-Meleon/1.8.0 / Build identifier: 2014010118010.

A zipped version of the current state of 1.8 build 10 assembled by adodupan is available in this thread http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,125632,126208,page=7#msg-126208

Quote
adodupan
Posted by: adodupan
Date: January 02, 2014 08:35AM

Quote
Dorian
Where can I get your patch?


Here is a package with all the fixes.
Download

With best wishes
Regards to all

K-Meleon 1.8 cannot yet do language switching like 1.6 & 1.7 and earlier versions since K-Meleon 1.x were able.

mfG

p.s. "chrome" is used for the Preferences configuration files, the Java Script console and some extensions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 04:57PM by guenter.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: JamesD
Date: January 02, 2014 07:16PM

@ Mikk

Here is a location from which you may download my KM 1.6.0 Beta 2.6

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1522294/K-Meleon1.6.0_Beta2dot6_en-US.7z

It is simple to use the 7-Zip versions. If you create a folder for the new K-Meleon, then just extract the files to that folder. If you wish to have your profile located within your new folder, then just double click on k-meleon.exe and it will be built. If you require that your profile be in App Data then follow these steps. Before you start KM for the first time, remove the file profile.ini from the folder you created. It is the file with zero bytes. After removing the file, double click k-meleon.exe and your profile will be built in App Data folder.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: rodocop
Date: January 02, 2014 07:35PM

Mikk,
and finally - my sig is fixed about 1.6db+ build from dugbug.

He had deleted his links but I've reuploaded that package to my own box account and it's downloadable now.

_____________________________________
Using K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug / KM-16-S2014
1.6beta2.6 by JamesD
_____________________________________
Recommending K-Meleon Twin+`||`Discuss it!!!
_____________________________________
New KM74 for test and feedback! Get It!

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 03, 2014 10:21AM

Thanks to all.smiling smiley

I downloaded all these 3 here prsented betas of 1.6.

1. JamesD modification:
If I try to start it I get this error messagesurprised smileysad smiley (translated from german):
Quote

K-MELEON performed a non valid instruction in
Modul XPCOM_CORE.DLL at 0177:0112e7e1.
Register:
EAX=00000009 CS=0177 EIP=0112e7e1 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=00000009 SS=017f ESP=007af984 EBP=011610b4
ECX=00000000 DS=017f ESI=007af9a8 FS=65f7
EDX=81f14062 ES=017f EDI=00000000 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
0f 4f f8 8b d7 8b ce e8 53 65 02 00 8b 46 08 a8
Stack Values:
011629c4 00f27040 007afa88 00000000 011278e5 007afa64 007af9a8 011629c4 00f27040 007af9bc 00000000 00010011 0000003f 007af9bc 01150000 0000007e

2. KM-16-S2014:
Tried to start KM-16-S2014 first I got the message the file msvcr80.dll missingconfused smiley. Than I copied it from the JamesD's KM. Now it works. Strange anyway.

And I remember I had allready sometimes formerly some issue with this file and found now it must have been by the installation of Audacity on my PC. This installation contains a file with the same name, 619 KB instead of KM's 612 KB and newer - from 4th Apr 2009 instead of 1th Dec 2006 (KM). What does this file do? Could it be usefull to use that newer one from Audacity for the KM too?

Compared to 1.5.4 are the till now visited web sites displayed correctly but its very very slowsleepy smiley. Additionally occurs often a message about not responding scripts which I can stop. This phenomenon occurs under 1.5.4 too but not such often; these sites are there displayed completely, indeed but false geometrical spreaded in 1.5.4, 99%-ly usable anyway.

Additionally there are many things I can set under 1.5.4 but I don't see all these possibilities under 1.6 (e.g. as the first and possible the most important the cookies managementconfused smiley)

€dit:
O.K., it was yesterday
Today I started this KM and first I could put the start page away which showed instead of text only white lines on blue background indeed. Than I discovered the Preferences button (missed settings from the previous paragraph, I think - ?) and clicked on it - its window appeared but without any content. Than I started my web site - the same as yesterday - but it stopped after appearing of some its graphic frames. Now I could only to close the KM-window. Tried to start once more - the same result with only a small difference: I couldn't switch off the start page more.sad smiley mad smiley In the consequence I stopped my experiments as useless and am now waiting for helpfull inputs.confused smiley

3. K-Meleon-1.6.17db+:
Some additional things in the packageconfused smiley. What does do the CoookieMuncher? Better cookies management? That one contented as in 1.5.4 as in IE6/SP1 I find optimal - simple and fullfilling practically all wishes (unfortunatelly not such more in IE7, in Opera it is very confused and in KM1.6.0BetaS2014 I'm missing it completely).

But strangely I get here the same error message as ad 1. if I click on the k-meleon.exe


Quote
guenter
IMHO there is no advantage to have an installer. Not for experienced users anyway.
Now I know again where I saw that smal advantage: At installation of 1.5.4 by installer - there it's possible to select some presets there which otherwise first must be searched in the running browser. E.g. I couldn't find till now how to switch off that in the installer preselected Netscape Bookmarks when I later found I prefer my IE Favorites (it disturbs by occupying of space in the taskbar even with the same icon as the IE Favorites).

And what is K-Meleon Loader? I see this exe-file in the main directories of all versions I have except of KM-16-S2014 and it can be also preselected by the 1.5.4 installer.



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2014 11:36PM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 03, 2014 05:37PM

Hi Mikk, I'm still on win98se too, but have forgotten nearly everything about little tweaks and fixes :-( Back when the very first beta versions of 1.6 appeared, there was some very detailed thread about 98 bugs, but all my old screenshots are now lost because the image hoster doesnt exist anymore, and some of the mentioned bugs don't exist anymore in the newer betas anyway.
Very glad guenter still has so much more system knowledge! He sure can help you better, but anyway my two cents.

Actually I'm still on beta25, but only for laziness, and plan to update to 26 soon for safety reasons. But I don't expect any problems really, it's just that I have an awful lot of customized stuff and little fixes in all sorts of folders and files, and so have to see what to transfer and what not and how, and because of my own macros don't necessarily want some of the new beta ones. Although I would still recommend them to new users, who don't have lots of private old stuff.

So just a few random thoughts for win98:

- In the KM components folder, delete compreg.dat and xpti.dat, then restart browser to create them fresh again.

- The loader is optional, it just automatically preloads some parts of KM in the background at system start, so that when manually starting KM it looks as if it starts much faster. Then if you close KM, those parts are still kept in background (and in the forum users complain that restarting didn't work to change some setting or fix). Personally I don't use it.

- Go to about:config and filter for .jit., it has to do with some advanced javascript stuff getting executed parallel at same time or such. At one point setting it to false it reduced some memory probs on win98.

- Do you have dependency walker installed? It helps a lot figuring out which dll-files may be needed additionally.
Usually it has to do with those additionally needed vcredist library files, msvcr... msvcp...
Not sure anymore if at some point I also needed mfc80.dll additionally, was it 1.6 beta, or 1.54 or...? Or did I have to fully install such a package? A mini-version of it? Can't remember...

- replace the opera hotlist.dll with the old one from KM154, even if you don't use it, because the newer has a bug that deletes the opera nicknames (if a user has defined any)

- many toolbar probs origin from errors in macros, but are noticed right away after browser start, so if you didn't install any new ones it shouldnt matter

- if the toolbars are messed, the error consol usually disappears from the menus too, just when it's needed most. But it has an own address so can still be viewed at chrome://console2/content/console2.xul
Since in the past I experimented all the time with new macros, I had even added it as link to the file readme.html (which is the default browser homepage). Right after the body tag I have inserted:
<a href="chrome://console2/content/console2.xul"> ERROR CONSOLE 1.X (if macro bug killed menu to it)</a></br></br>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2014 05:53PM by siria.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: guenter
Date: January 04, 2014 01:57AM

sirias's memory is more accurate than she says. tongue sticking out smiley

I forgot about the jit (just in time compiler) settings about:config name.
K-Melon 1.6 is faster than 1.5.4 with JavaScript except on systems with very limited RAM. And what she wrote probably cures its relative slowness for Your system.

For the timeout problem You may have to choose longer execution time for dom.max_script_run_time via about:config. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.max_script_run_time

Yes, You can always test with the newer msvcr80.dll. Only a few programs need a specific, older version. In that case You place that old version into their install folder. The rest should use for security reasons a centrally installed msvcr80.dll in Windows System that is kept updated to the newest most secure version.

The "loader" has been castrated many versions ago. It created problems on some systems. It now serves only to provide an icon in the quickstart bar of Windows. It cannot preload anything. If You want a real loader You must use the one from 0.8.2 or so.

p.s. Du kannst normal den Inhalt deines fertig konfigurierten 1.5.4 Profils in dein 1.6 Profil kopieren und es so ganz ohne eine neue Konfigurationsorgie und/oder Installer versuchen hin zu kriegen. surprised smiley

Du musst nur die benutzte Skin auch rüber kopieren.

Der Tip kam ursprünglich vor Jahren von Siria. Er geht bei 1.5x bis 1.7x.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2014 02:36PM by guenter.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 04, 2014 01:06PM

Quote
siria
- In the KM components folder, delete compreg.dat and xpti.dat, then restart browser to create them fresh again.
* Done - no effect

- The loader is optional, it just automatically preloads some parts of KM in the background at system start, so that when manually starting KM it looks as if it starts much faster. Then if you close KM, those parts are still kept in background (and in the forum users complain that restarting didn't work to change some setting or fix). Personally I don't use it.
* All deleted (renamed, respectively), rebooted - no effect registered, neither in 1.5.4 nor in 1.6

- Go to about:config and filter for .jit., it has to do with some advanced javascript stuff getting executed parallel at same time or such. At one point setting it to false it reduced some memory probs on win98.
* Not possible to go to any address as also about:config. KM crashed allready with the start page.

- Do you have dependency walker installed? It helps a lot figuring out which dll-files may be needed additionally.
Usually it has to do with those additionally needed vcredist library files, msvcr... msvcp...
Not sure anymore if at some point I also needed mfc80.dll additionally, was it 1.6 beta, or 1.54 or...? Or did I have to fully install such a package? A mini-version of it? Can't remember...
* I don't have dependency walker installed. But I thought these three variationen of KM are stable finished and completely as they are for DL & installation presented not needing any additional SW as dlls etc.

- replace the opera hotlist.dll with the old one from KM154, even if you don't use it, because the newer has a bug that deletes the opera nicknames (if a user has defined any)
* This doesn't touch KM but Opera if I understand this statement correctly(?). I can do it perheaps later if Opera will stay on my system anyway. But till now I didn't define any nicknames there and don't see the reason why to do it. €dit 20:07CET 09.01.2014 - my own answer: False uderstood because of few knowledge of KM. Operas hotlist can be used also in KM. In that case it affects KM, otherway not. Doesn't affect Opera itself.

- many toolbar probs origin from errors in macros, but are noticed right away after browser start, so if you didn't install any new ones it shouldnt matter
* I didn't install any new toolbars and don't think to do it anytimes in the future

- if the toolbars are messed, the error consol usually disappears from the menus too, just when it's needed most. But it has an own address so can still be viewed at chrome://console2/content/console2.xul
Since in the past I experimented all the time with new macros, I had even added it as link to the file readme.html (which is the default browser homepage). Right after the body tag I have inserted:
<a h.ref="chrome://console2/content/console2.xul"> ERROR CONSOLE 1.X (if macro bug killed menu to it)</a></br></br>
* this I see as meaningless until the probs above not solved. For the rest see the point above.


Quote
guenter
I forgot about the jit (just in time compiler) settings about:config name.
K-Melon 1.6 is faster than 1.5.4 with JavaScript except on systems with very limited RAM. And what she wrote probably cures its relative slowness for Your system.
* is 320 MB RAM really such very limited? I know that approximately 10 or 12 years ago were commonly delivered PCs with Pentium 4, XP and only 256 MB RAM as the basic installation. I could understand such statement for my former PC from that time with Pentium P54C (without MMX) 166 MHz and 128 MB (the mainboard maximum) but my actual PC allthough meanwhile also 16 years old lies not only a little above that.

For the timeout problem You may have choose longer execution time for dom.max_script_run_time via about:config. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.max_script_run_time
* See above at sirias quoting - KM crashes before I can go to any address. Otherwise I ask if such longer execution time can help? I can stop a non responding script but I don't need to do it. As I let it once run on after the error message it seemed I could wait for eternity. Finally I must stop it by ctrl-alt-del that time.

Yes, You can always test with the newer msvcr80.dll. Only a few programs need a specific, older version. In that case You place that old version into their install folder. The rest should use for security reasons a centrally installed msvcr80.dll in Windows System that is kept updated to the newest most secure version.
* OK, I copied the newer msvcr80.dll from Audacity to KM but nothing works better or worse after it. What is the purpose of this file anyway? I have no centrally installed msvcr80.dll in Windows System (all till last available W98 updates from the Misrosoft web-siteinstalled).



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 02:22AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: guenter
Date: January 04, 2014 03:03PM

Quote
guenter
I forgot about the jit (just in time compiler) settings about:config name.
K-Melon 1.6 is faster than 1.5.4 with JavaScript except on systems with very limited RAM. And what she wrote probably cures its relative slowness for Your system.
* is 320 MB RAM really such very limited? I know that approximately 10 or 12 years ago were commonly delivered PCs with Pentium 4, XP and only 256 MB RAM as the basic installation. I could understand such statement for my former PC from that time with Pentium P54C (without MMX) 166 MHz and 128 MB (the mainboard maximum) but my actual PC allthough meanwhile also 16 years old lies not only a little above that.

ok. It is more than needed for JIT. So I am wrong.

On my old system 1.6 was faster with 192 MB RAM.

It is not the reason of the crash anyway.


For the timeout problem You may have choose longer execution time for dom.max_script_run_time via about:config. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.max_script_run_time
* See above at sirias quoting - KM crashes before I can go to any address. Otherwise I ask if such longer execution time can help? I can stop a non responding script but I don't need to do it. As I let it once run on after the error message it seamed I could wait for eternity. Finally I must stop it by ctrl-alt-del that time.

ok. You could set the value manually with an editor in prefs.js of used profile but there is no point to do it this hard way - as long as the crash problem is not solved.



Yes, You can always test with the newer msvcr80.dll. Only a few programs need a specific, older version. In that case You place that old version into their install folder. The rest should use for security reasons a centrally installed msvcr80.dll in Windows System that is kept updated to the newest most secure version.
* OK, I copied the newer msvcr80.dll from Audacity to KM but nothing works better or worse after it. What is the purpose of this file anyway? I have no centrally installed msvcr80.dll in Windows System (all till last available W98 updates from the Misrosoft web-siteinstalled).
[/quote]

msvcr80.dll is a windows runtime libary for the VC8 compiler ,(Microsoft® Visual Studio® 2005) just as msvcr71.dll was for VC7.1 and msvcrt.dll was for VC6.

It provides functions that are used by the programs. That way the programers do not have to reinvent the wheel but their programs are supplied with some very common ready to use functionality via the dll.

AFAIK the big innovation of msvcr80.dll was that on newer NT based systems it has a version control that prevents that a program is used with the wrong subversion of the dll. Means that several versions of the dll are centrally installed in the system. Before that these systems had the same problem as older windows versions and You had to place the correct subversion in the program folder if needed. Like I described.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2014 03:39PM by guenter.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 04, 2014 05:57PM

Mikk, the core of the problem is you are on win98!
The last version that *officially* supports it is KM1.5.4, not any 1.6 variant.
1.6beta still is usable for us with tricks, though not quite 100%. Still it works far better on modern websites than the awfully outdated gecko engine in 1.5.4

In my last post I thought you had already *kernel-ex* installed and the vcredist files, since it was posted about before, but your starting problem sounds like not? There is absolutely NO chance to run KM1.6 on win98 without kernel-ex, and the properties/compatibility tab of k-meleon.exe must be set to XP-SP2 with it.
Then again... you said you could start one of the 1.6versions and it was running??
Could it be, you perhaps just forgot to set the compatibility tab to XP for the other versions? It must be set again for every new path of the km exe file.

And those additional dll-files of the vcredist-package, which is also mentioned on the official download page for the official old 1.6beta2. Those dll's are not really a "fix", they are just part of an official Microsoft library package, which usually is already systemwide installed on newer computers, just not older ones. This is part of system requirements, similar like other programs might say they require NET-framework2 or java or such.

Something important for win98 which I forgot to mention, sorry, since personally I don't have a working printer anyway (ink was always dry when I needed it once every few month): guess kernel-ex can't yet fix the printing bug in win98 with those newer gecko versions. If I remember correctly on win98 with KM1.6 you can't print, and it neither works with the Firefox versions from 3.5 on. But am not completely sure, perhaps it may work with additional win98 fixes, there are some more tools not only kernel-ex available.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2014 06:14PM by siria.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 04, 2014 11:47PM

Quote
siria
In my last post I thought you had already *kernel-ex* installed and the vcredist files, since it was posted about before, but your starting problem sounds like not? There is absolutely NO chance to run KM1.6 on win98 without kernel-ex, and the properties/compatibility tab of k-meleon.exe must be set to XP-SP2 with it.
I have KernelEx installed the whole time. I tried to set the compatibility to default (what ever it means, I could nowhere find only in one article of K'ex Wiki is a very meagre indication there, it could be XP-SP2) and XP-SP2 both. Both with the same result for KM1.6. (I think now to understand all about KernelEx vice versa to it I wrote 02. Dezember 2013 10:52.)

Quote
siria
Then again... you said you could start one of the 1.6versions and it was running??
Could it be, you perhaps just forgot to set the compatibility tab to XP for the other versions? It must be set again for every new path of the km exe file.
Now I have for all variants the compatibility set to XP-SP2 and the behaviour of all of them is still the same.

Quote
siria
And those additional dll-files of the vcredist-package, which is also mentioned on the official download page for the official old 1.6beta2. Those dll's are not really a "fix", they are just part of an official Microsoft library package, which usually is already systemwide installed on newer computers, just not older ones. This is part of system requirements, similar like other programs might say they require NET-framework2 or java or such.
vcredist_x86.exe DLed from microsoft.com and installed and this could help a little. BetaS2014 starts poperlier, I can see probably all the toolbars with all setting possibilities I should see now. But the Startpage appears still without text only with the white lines (perheaps marking the position of the text lines) on the blue background. As I started it the 1st time I could see the text. Additional windows (for KM view options/preferences...) open empty and also my web site stops with some lines marking the text positions, a few thumbnail pics, if I click the feld to insert my nickname to log-in it shows a reaction but I can insert nothing. Also this page worked correctly when I startet this KM 1st time. And as db+NS as 2.6 (JamesD) break down before effectively started with still the same error message.

Are there perheaps KM's own temporary Inet files (I know Opera has them) which I could try to delete? (Deleting of themselves of IE changes nothing here.)

€dit: I think I found them - ..\K-Meleon_1.6.0BetaS2014\Profiles\03xxwdfd.default\Cache - deleted - no change.

Quote
siria
Something important for win98 which I forgot to mention, sorry, since personally I don't have a working printer anyway (ink was always dry when I needed it once every few month): guess kernel-ex can't yet fix the printing bug in win98 with those newer gecko versions. If I remember correctly on win98 with KM1.6 you can't print, and it neither works with the Firefox versions from 3.5 on.
Not an acute problem for me. From the same reason as you (jets was always stopped when I needed it once every few days and I must play with it some hours to get 1 or 2 printed pages proper and used up almost the whole ink cartridge every time for it - too expensive this toysad smiley) and because I had various problems with all that printers I possessed since my 1st own PC in 1983 I eliminated the institution named Printer from my household away allready more than 5 ys. ago. I get a nettle-rash when I hear about 3D-printersgrinning smiley

Quote
siria
perhaps it may work with additional win98 fixes, there are some more tools not only kernel-ex available.
Can you tell me pls where I can find these fixes?

Quote
siria
1.6beta still is usable for us with tricks, though not quite 100%. Still it works far better on modern websites than the awfully outdated gecko engine in 1.5.4
Are there any tricks more which I should know? (100% - if I understand it correctly 1.6 corresponds to FF3.6 and this version is also since 1 or 2 years no more supported as I know. And also KernelEx should support FF propperly only up to 3.6.2 - later begin problems, people saysad smiley)

€dit:
Quote
siria 03. Januar 2014 11:37
- Go to about:config and filter for .jit., it has to do with some advanced javascript stuff getting executed parallel at same time or such. At one point setting it to false it reduced some memory probs on win98.
Also this address still doesn't work.

Now I downloaded the Dependency Walker as you suggested and am studying it. I hope it shall help. All your suggestions befor I'm familiary with it are wellcome. smiling smiley



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2014 10:08AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 05, 2014 08:14AM

Leicht peinlich... Actually I haven't updated yet from 1.6beta2.5 to 2.6 for lack of time and not considering it so urgent, but since you're having such massive problems, thought I'd just unzip 26 and look what happens. If I just start it without copying over anything, only set the compatibility to XP. And oops... out of box it doesn't start on my machine either! But funnily it doesn't complain about xpcom (your error message), but complains about imglib2! Luckily after copying over the working version from 2.5 it the 2.6 now starts normal. Haven't tried anything further yet.

imglib2.dll in components folder, working version 1.9.1.20pre dated 24-june-2011, after replacement probably compreg.dat and xpti.dat should be deleted again before browser start.
Somewhere in the forum I've read that it was updated due to some exploitable bug with images, but can't help it if the new version doesn't like win98 anymore :-( (just secretly hoping those bugs may not work on win98 either tongue sticking out smiley)

Anyway, your error is about xpcom so that must have another reason. If kernelex is surely set to XP, that leaves the vcredist files as No1 suspects. This package is available in various versions, did you install the VS2005 linked from the download page? (goes to www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5638 )
For K-Meleon the 3 important files are said to be msvcr80.dll, msvcp80.dll, perhaps msvcm80.dll. In the past it was enough to copy them into the k-meleon root folder, not sure if it still works, but worth a try. If yet another file is missing, dependency walker hopefully reveals it (mfc80?)

If memory serves KM1.6 corresponds to FF3.5, and 1.7 to 3.6, but others can confirm better.

But you mentioned you can start one of the other user versions. What happens there when you open Edit >Configuration >Browser Configuration? Does it not open about:config?

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 05, 2014 11:49AM

Quote
siria
But funnily it doesn't complain about xpcom (your error message), but complains about imglib2!
I try to use BetaS2014 instead of your beta2.5/2.6, the only one I can particularly start. It doesen't complain about xpcom as beta2.5/2.6 and db+ns. But funnily it seems it has the same xpcom as your version but different as db+ns where the xpcom error message occurs in both to me.

Quote
siria
did you install the VS2005 linked from the download page? (goes to www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5638 )
Yes, I did.

Quote
siria
For K-Meleon the 3 important files are said to be msvcr80.dll, msvcp80.dll, perhaps msvcm80.dll. In the past it was enough to copy them into the k-meleon root folder, not sure if it still works, but worth a try. If yet another file is missing, dependency walker hopefully reveals it (mfc80?)
I copied all these 3 files to all 3 versions where missing - no visible effect. With DW I'm not so far yet: I'm tired now I must go a little sleepsleepy smiley.

Quote
siria
But you mentioned you can start one of the other user versions. What happens there when you open Edit >Configuration >Browser Configuration? Does it not open about:config?
Y, it does. But the window under that is empty, no further operation possible. Similar analogous to the statrpage and my web-page as I allready described.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 02:42AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 05, 2014 04:02PM

Both James26 and Freds2014 versions seem to work fine on my win98 out of box (except the newer imglib2 in 26 version, which needs to be replaced). Which probably means means some external file is different on our machines - just which??
Both versions I have fresh downloaded in the last 24h.
My kernel-ex is version 4.5.120.

Both versions show a minor xpcom_core.dll error in dependency walker, something related with "memory" in kernel32.dll, but still seem to work fine.
If you get an xpcom start error only in James version but not Freds, perhaps try and copy over the working dll?

Hm, is your 26 version still portable, with a profile.ini in the root folder?

That whole thing is a mystery to me :-/ Could you upload a screenshot of that blue-white page to the web somewhere?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2014 04:05PM by siria.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 05, 2014 11:06PM

Quote
siria
My kernel-ex is version 4.5.120.
My one too. It's untill further notice the last version, so far I know.

Quote
siria
is your 26 version still portable, with a profile.ini in the root folder?
Yes, but the file is empty (0 kB) - is it correct?

Quote
siria
Could you upload a screenshot of that blue-white page to the web somewhere?

Click on for original size
I don't know the default colours of KM but it's possible the blue background and that light of the lines may be caused by my a little special display scheme in Windows if it should be others in default KM.

I tested the Freds2014 with DW and got following error messages:

		Pl	Ordinal ^		Hint	Function				Entry Point
APPHELP.DLL	C	N/A		N/A	ApphelpCheckShellObject 		Not Bound
USERENV.DLL	C	N/A		N/A	ExpandEnvironmentStringsForUserW	Not Bound

Module		
APPHELP.DLL	Error opening file. Die angegebene datei wurde nicht gefunden (2)
USERENV.DLL	Error opening file. Die angegebene datei wurde nicht gefunden (2)

Error: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in an implicitly dependent module.
Warning: At least one delay-load dependency module was not found.
Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module.
Followed test for James26 brought the same result.

It seems you have these 2 files somewhere else where KM can reach them. USERENV.DLL could I find in C:\WINDOWS\KernelEx (Why doesn't KM see him there?) but APPHELP.DLL nowhere



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 02:48AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 06, 2014 12:24AM

Quote
Mikk
Quote
siria
is your 26 version still portable, with a profile.ini in the root folder?
Yes, but the file is empty (0 kB) - is it correct?

Yes is correct. That means your profile is inside the root folder, in profiles folder. The existence of that file works merely as a switch: profile is inside/outside. If its name were "portable.ini" that would make more sense, but perhaps that's some historic thing.

Quote
Mikk
I don't know the default colours of KM but it's possible the blue background and that white of the lines may be caused by my a little special display scheme if it should be others in default KM.

Thanks for the screens. Weird. Way beyond my level, but still suspect vcredist, simply because in the past similar errors were usually related to it. Anyone...? ;-)
Hm.. what "little special display scheme"? smiling smiley
Just for comparison, this is how the startpages look by default, blue is Freds2014, white is James16b26.
Toolbar Background color is off by default, but when I enable it, there's just a gray pattern, not darkblue.


Quote
Mikk
It seams you have these 2 files somewhere else where KM can reach them. USERENV.DLL could I find in C:\WINDOWS\KernelEx (Why doesn't KM see him there?) but APPHELP.DLL nowhere

Actually same for me: userenv in kernelex folder and apphelp nowhere.
BTW which files give you these errors? My kmeleon.exe and xpcom complain only about advapi.dll, something with "globalmemorystatusex" and "create restricted token", which doesn't seem to harm as much.

Stupid question: you probably did a system restart after vcredist-installation, right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2014 12:54AM by siria.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 06, 2014 02:08AM

Quote
siria
BTW which files give you these errors? My kmeleon.exe and xpcom complain only about advapi.dll, something with "globalmemorystatusex" and "create restricted token", which doesn't seem to harm as much.
k-meleon.exe. Which of that big amount of xpcom files do you test? That xpcom_core.dll one?

Quote
siria
Stupid question: you probably did a system restart after vcredist-installation, right?
Yes I did. (There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.cool smiley grinning smiley )



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2014 02:13AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 06, 2014 03:41AM

Thinking about it... can remember a few postings where actually a 2nd restart was needed to fix something (whatever), silly as it sounds...

xpcom, oh I just checked the two dll's in the root folder, when you posted the error message.
But find it interesting that kmeleon.exe gives us different errors, no idea why.
Perhaps we do have some different system files, from little fixes here and there over the years. But why would your KM require a file (apphelp) that I don't have either?

HA - guess what?! When I set kernelex to 'default' instead of 'XP' then it shows me those flat lines instead of text too! Also doch, I *knew* it was either kernelex or vcredist not set right, because that always has been the reason in the past too!
Please check your properties again, make sure there is no checkmark for child processes, and it can't harm to do another restart...

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 06, 2014 05:55AM

Quote
siria
HA - guess what?! When I set kernelex to 'default' instead of 'XP' then it shows me those flat lines instead of text too! Also doch, I *knew* it was either kernelex or vcredist not set right, because that always has been the reason in the past too!
Please check your properties again, make sure there is no checkmark for child processes, and it can't harm to do another restart...
HA - guess what?!surprised smiley - dito - Bad ghoststongue sticking out smiley - I have no other explanation grinning smiley.
I checked it once more and at Freds2014 and db+NS (whom is this version? rodocop?) I had really Kex set to default (what das this damned thing mean? Nobody says. Current system pheaps? Nobody knowsmad smiley.) I cannot really say how it is possible. But anyway. I set it all to XP-SP2 and Freds2014 seems to work correctly now, at least. Now I can make extensive practical tests with it and I hope I'll can work clearly with web sites where I could not do so till now with my present browsers. Thank you very much smiling smileygrinning smileyRiesenkusssmiling smileygrinning smiley

But it's not compltely finished yet. The problem of the other two KM 1.6s persists also with the Kex set to XP-SP2. James16b26 had I set so the whole time, anyway.
Quote
siria
xpcom, oh I just checked the two dll's in the root folder, when you posted the error message.
But find it interesting that kmeleon.exe gives us different errors, no idea why.
I checked now both these files for all 3 versions and it's everywhere the same, the same as I reported allready 5th Jan 2014 17:06 for k-meleon.exe, even at Freds2014 which seems to work now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 02:55AM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 06, 2014 06:34AM

Neverending story.... Glad at least one version works for you now, at last! Whoa, that was tough.

The trick with kernelex is, the individual settings are stored by their paths. That means, if a folder is renamed, the setting falls back to default, because Kex looks for the old folder name! Have fallen myself a few times into this trap, but meanwhile know it. Should have insisted harder you check it again earlier smiling smiley
Guess the "default" setting means what you chose as your own default setting at installation: Whether kernelex shall be off or on, as long as no indivual setting is chosen. If the mouse hovers over that default line in the properties tab there appears a popup explaining this.
(That said, I wasn't so fully aware of that either, but as so often - someone asks and BANG the answer is suddenly clear, LOL!

Just pity that the other versions don't work yet for you, am really out of ideas there.

Then again - you know what, if one version works and another not, the usual way to figure out why is just to copy over some files or folders to see which ones may help.

The other versions - guess rodocops own is "Twin", and IIRC (?) db was dugbug=Duffy98...
The closest to the default browser is by James, the others are more or less very special versions.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2014 06:42AM by siria.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: Mikk
Date: January 06, 2014 03:28PM

Quote
siria
The trick with kernelex is, the individual settings are stored by their paths. That means, if a folder is renamed, the setting falls back to default, because Kex looks for the old folder name!
It's probable. I can't say more when exactly but I did some small corrections in the directory names clearing the structure of my complete KM folder.

Quote
siria
the usual way to figure out why is just to copy over some files or folders to see which ones may help.
Mhmm, a comprehensible method. But at more than 500 files...surprised smiley grinning smiley
Anyway, I made a sandbox for it to me and started it. (I did NOT FORGET to set the Kex correctly in the sandboxgrinning smiley.) I replaced allways only the file where "K-MELEON performed a non valid instruction in Modul", the next such error came promptly. The sequence of the incomplete starts with the faulty and replaced files was following:

xpcom_core.dll
nspr4.dll
JS3250.DLL
\components\XPPREF32.DLL
\components\NECKO.DLL
\components\XPC3250.DLL
\components\IMGLIB2.DLL
\components\DOCSHELL.DLL
GKGFX.DLL
...message "KM wasn't closed properly. Do you want to resume your last browsing version - y/n" - answered NO
\components\GKGFXTHEBES.DLL
\components\GKLAYOUT.DLL
\components\UCONV.DLL
\components\JAR50.DLL
\components\GKWIDGET.DLL
SQLITE3.DLL
...Window opened transparent
THEBES.DLL
...Window opened white
\components\MORK.DLL
\components\GKPARSER.DLL
...Window correctly opened with the page resource:///readme.html, started to work with KM, first made some toolbar settings. After 'View-Toolbars-Options' again errors:
MOZZ.DLL
\components\TXMGR.DLL - not replaced, after the next KM start a web page succesfully started but during inserting of login data occured again an error with the same file
\components\TXMGR.DLL

I think so I could go on and there shall still occure such error in a range where I was not yet. Than I could bring it to disappear through the replacing of the file. But I don't think it's the meaning of that thing to replace successive all dll's even when they are in order at other users. This what I did now demonstrates perheaps something, but the solution of the problem must be brought in an other way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2014 03:42PM by Mikk.

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Re: K-meleon instead of IE6
Posted by: siria
Date: January 06, 2014 04:34PM

500 single files one by one is murder of course grinning smiley I usually go about it with some interpolation - first exchange some folders at once, if it helps, than try with single folders (plugins, kplugins, chrome, components, macros...), then single files. Or the other way around: copy into S2014 a few parts of beta26. And not to forget, after exchanging components files the 2 dat files inside must be deleted each time...

Or perhaps even compare beta26 with 154? For example as mentioned I have to use old hotlist.dll in KM1.6 because of (yet another) deleting bug with the new one. The old version still works better in 1.6beta (although I can only warn about using opera hotlist in any KM version, the old dll bug hasn't been fixed in many years and probably never will.)

Then again - from what little I remember from the descriptions of those various 1.6beta versions they are rather different and unique inside, so perhaps it never fully works.
And then there's still that problem with your mysterious additional errors compared to mine, which must be related to some external system stuff, so perhaps not even S2014 works well enough. Oh well, no idea. Lots of hard work while probably the real problem hides outside of KM itself.
Yeah, probably best to just try your luck now with S2014 smiling smiley

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