Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: Zero3K
Date: May 31, 2013 05:01AM

I hope not because its the only browser with the ability to nickname folders. I don't mind thast the engine can't change from the version that's in 1.70 Alpha 2. I just want more bug fixes, etc. applied to it.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: zombie
Date: June 03, 2013 06:33PM

K-Meleon died long time ago. There are no updates since December 2010.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: Zero3K
Date: June 04, 2013 05:13AM

I read that all it needs are more developers.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: bksening
Date: June 04, 2013 12:52PM

Quote
Zero3K
I read that all it needs are more developers.

That's like saying all that the dead need to be alive is life.... After all, AFAIK there are currently zero active developers....

KMeleon died a long time ago because it's based on an outdated rendering engine originally supported by only a handful of developers that don't have the time nor resources to redo their browser UI using Windows GUI controls ever since the Windows GUI testing harness was abandoned by Mozilla. They know it is a futile attempt, and will not be able to keep pace with the fast-developing and fast-updating Web advancements and technologies. So all of the few developers have given up.

With other open-source and technology-leading browsers in higher-use and development, it is extremely unlikely KMeleon will be able to attract any developers. Perhaps get a few devs to play with it like a toy programming project, but I doubt any dev really wants to take it up to seriously support it as an ongoing browser.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: bksening
Date: June 04, 2013 12:57PM

And in other semi-related news, (since KMeleon is a Windows GUI browser based on Gecko rendering engine), Camino browser for Mac, which uses Mac native GUI over Gecko, has officially stopped developing on May 30, 2013. Basically, the reasons for stopping given by Camino apply to KM too: "Camino is increasingly lagging behind the fast pace of changes on the web, and more importantly it is not receiving security updates, making it increasingly unsafe to use."

http://caminobrowser.org

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: June 04, 2013 10:52PM

Sadly, I totally agree with you.

Camino is warning K-meleon users. Soon or later, we will, have to stop using it.

The sad news for me, is that there isn't any alternative (without using wrappers/kernelEx) for Windows 2000 and/or below beyond Seamonkey, if we forget about the easy macro language and "The Browser You Control" experience.

EDI: LOL how much time I was without testing Seamonkey. Now, even with wrappers, can't run in Windows 2000. Oh god, what a dark path I have...

This remembers me my die hard life with Netscape 4.78 till I switched to K-meleon.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2013 11:08PM by JohnHell.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: guenter
Date: June 05, 2013 04:22AM

Yes it is dead.

BTW AFAIK Dorian compiled bugfixes into plugins and exe and posted them in summer 2012. So it is not all that dead really.


My personal opinion. There is no future without drastic changes.


HTML Engine? K-Meleon needs an HTML engine update within two years or less.

Chrome project, Webkit and MS (yes, MS html engine was the original embed choice) still offer embed projects like the one from Mozilla that K-Meleon relied on in the past.

The Mozilla embed project was stopped. No financial rewards. Firefox is Mozilla.org's cash cow currently and gets all support.

K-Meleon needs an embed project that will be available and updated at least at all Windows flavors. MS has an restrictive support policy so IMHO its product is out of competition too.

Where to go in case the project ain't dead?

IMHO K-Meleon project should migrate its essential K-Plugins (that is where the K-M specific functionality AFAIK is) to the Blink engine provided the interested users can raise the money to do this job.

I would chose the Yandex flavor of Blink.

p.s. NO. IMHO WE users cannot continue to be freeloaders. tongue sticking out smiley

Financing can possibly be partially done by selling the number one search engine place and other things. But we may have to take some money into our hands FIRST. sad smiley


Oh yes. We got to interest new and especially old devs to accompany the change to a non totally free project. No idea how.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2013 05:15AM by guenter.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 05, 2013 06:10AM

The fate of project depends really on the fact whether some financially competent company would be interested in it or not.

No other real way I think.

Thought inertia is the key moment in why KM isn't interesting to the devs - I speak about new devs, maybe students. KM is very good base to learn something and as training.

But I think most of potential devs are not informed about KM existence...


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74.0 for test and feedback! Get it there!


Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: caktus
Date: June 08, 2013 12:04AM

Quote
JohnHell
forget about the easy macro language and "The Browser You Control" experience.

I really hope we don't loose "The Browser You Control experience." It is what sets KM above and beyond any other browser and is why I prefer to use KM over any other browser.

With this Stupid Windows 8 OS, apparently the only KM I can use is JamesD's 1.6beta2.5. Although 1.6beta2.5 is a bit quirky with Windows 8, with help of the dedicated members of KM's forums, "quirky" has pretty much become a non-issue. With all the help available here in the forums it is as if KM actually has a LIFE OF IT'S OWN. My only concern now is the few web sites that seem determined to ignore "GECKO" but this becomes less and less a problem. As far as I am concerned, KM will always be my default browser until I have absolutely no choice.

Quote
guenter
BTW AFAIK Dorian compiled bugfixes into plugins and exe and posted them in summer 2012. So it is not all that dead

This is probably the best new I've heard all day.smiling smiley

Quote
guenter
There is no future without drastic changes.

Probably the worst new I've heard all day.sad smiley

Quote
guenter
...provided the interested users can raise the money...
...IMHO WE users cannot continue to be freeloaders...

Why not at least attempt to set up a war chest with the understanding that if the KM project for some reason does not work out, the money would go to help something like perhaps Source Forge. Nothing lasts for ever, especially with out a little help.tongue sticking out smiley

Quote
robocop
The fate of project depends really on the fact whether some financially competent company would be interested in it or not.

No other real way I think.

Thought inertia is the key moment in why KM isn't interesting to the devs - I speak about new devs, maybe students. KM is very good base to learn something and as training.

But I think most of potential devs are not informed about KM existence...

Maybe a company sponsor would be the best way to go, especially if it could be done in an unobtrusive manner since just about all things that go this route tend to throw good things out of whack.

Quote
robocop
new devs, maybe students. KM is very good base to learn something and as training.

Sounds like this could be the best way to go. Perhaps someone knowledgeable of accomplishing such goals could be persuaded to take on such a project.

Quote
robocop
But I think most of potential devs are not informed about KM existence...

I myself, often mention KM and what a great browser it, how it can be customized to virtually no end with out adverse effects and how easy it is to work with, even for the average user. My problem is trying to not sound like I am spreading SPAM.

Charlie

~~If it ain't broke, why screw it up?~~


Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: mhf
Date: June 09, 2013 01:01AM

Quote
caktus
...As far as I am concerned, KM will always be my default browser until I have absolutely no choice...

+ 100 !

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: panzer
Date: June 10, 2013 03:15PM

Quote
mhf
Quote
caktus
...As far as I am concerned, KM will always be my default browser until I have absolutely no choice...

+ 100 !

Same here.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 10, 2013 05:59PM

Quote
panzer
Quote
mhf
Quote
caktus
...As far as I am concerned, KM will always be my default browser until I have absolutely no choice...

+ 100 !

Same here.

There were at least 4 musketeers! Me being 4-th!


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74.0 for test and feedback! Get it there!


Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 10, 2013 06:53PM

To panzer, mhf, caktus, and robocop

With my cape and saber, I will join your happy group.

K-Meleon forever

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: panzer
Date: June 12, 2013 02:08PM

They say that when you go down you have to go with your chin up. So chin up, boys!

I am D'Artagnan, btw. smiling smiley

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: gordon451
Date: June 14, 2013 05:01PM

Quote
caktus
My only concern now is the few web sites that seem determined to ignore "GECKO" but this becomes less and less a problem.

Unfortunately, it is an increasng problem. Check out Fuelwatch. For this excercise, just click "Search"... Then click the map symbol at left end of each entry. OK, it may be my prefs have completely scrambled the call to Google Maps. But the net result is, I can't view the maps, no matter what user agent I choose. mad smiley

I must remember to keep a log of sites that simply don't perform when I use KM. sad smiley

Then there are the bank sites I can log in freely in Opera and IE9... and KM set as FF?

I really really like KM, and the M$Windoze look and feel is the stuff of dreams. But even I am looking hard at Sleipnir/Lunascape/Avant.

Gordon.

____________________
Gigabyte H61M-USB3-B3 r2.0, I5-2400 3.10GHz, 4GB RAM; W7HPx64 SP1, Lotus SmartSuite 9.8, K-Meleon74.24, Opera 12.17, IE11, Eudora 6.2, Foxit Reader 5.3.1.0606, PaintShop Pro 6.02, Avast! 10.0.2206

____________________
Early to bed and early to rise makes a bloke crook, broke and stupid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 05:01PM by gordon451.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 14, 2013 05:32PM

yes, new techs are conquering web day by day and the list unsupported grows constantly...
but we keep the frontiers 
we are fighting bravely   (c)

So I have maps on Fuelwatch being loaded. Slow, but it works!



Twin+ rules!


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74.0 for test and feedback! Get it there!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 05:41PM by rodocop.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 14, 2013 09:37PM

I am look at a map of fuelwatch using KM 1.6.0 beta 2.4 with the default user agent. All it seems to require is Javascript be enabled.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: gordon451
Date: June 15, 2013 07:30PM

Quote
JamesD
I am look at a map of fuelwatch using KM 1.6.0 beta 2.4 with the default user agent. All it seems to require is Javascript be enabled.

&@rodocop -

That's the problem. JavaScript is enabled. I use the Default UA by erm... default?... it's
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.20pre) Gecko K-Meleon/1.6.0

This happens on both 1.6.0b2 and 1.6.0b25. I don't get any JS errors from Fuelwatch, not even unrecognised variables. I have no problems using maps.google.com. However, on many sites that give me a (Google) access map, I cannot refocus the map or zoom it.

But the "Close map" works on Fuelwatch. confused smiley Interesting, I have the same problem on IE9x32 and the same number of clues, none. (IE9x64 is about as useful as a lightbulb in a power-out.) Opera 12.01 works fine.

The only thing I can find is that in about:config I see
browser.display.show_image_placeholders: false
but in Prefs<Page display<Images<Missing images I have "Dispay block-like placeholders..." checked. Why this discrepancy should stop Google I have no idea, and honestly I don't think this is the cause.

Gordon.

____________________
Gigabyte H61M-USB3-B3 r2.0, I5-2400 3.10GHz, 4GB RAM; W7HPx64 SP1, Lotus SmartSuite 9.8, K-Meleon74.24, Opera 12.17, IE11, Eudora 6.2, Foxit Reader 5.3.1.0606, PaintShop Pro 6.02, Avast! 10.0.2206

____________________
Early to bed and early to rise makes a bloke crook, broke and stupid.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: guenter
Date: June 15, 2013 08:54PM

A number of pages use browser switches that do not recognize K-Meleon's ID as yet another browser with a Gecko Rendering Engine.

You got to help these pages. There is a automatic browser ID changer on Extensions.
I do not know whether it is updated.

I personally use the browser UserAgentString switching button of Privacy Bar and have added a few choices that help me with the pages I visit.
Choice can be added e.g. in /K-Meleon/default/pref/I10n.js



// Privacy

pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent1.name", "Firefox 3.5");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent1.string", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 Firefox/3.5.19 GTB7.1");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent2.name", "SeaMonkey 2.0");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent2.string", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101123 SeaMonkey/2.0.11");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent3.name", "Firefox 3.6");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent3.string", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120128 Firefox/3.6.26 GTB7.1");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent4.name", "Firefox 10");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent4.string", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0a1) Gecko/20111008 Firefox/10.0a1");

You can add more.

The next would be have number 5 in code:

pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent5.name", "Yet another");
pref("kmeleon.privacy.useragent5.string", "whatever UserAgentString");



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2013 01:12AM by guenter.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 15, 2013 10:01PM

@ Gordon

In my system the browser.display.show_image_placeholders pref is set to true. I can zoom in and out and pan in all four directions.

I have "display icons for missing images" checked rather than "Dispay block-like placeholders...".

One or both of these differences may be the cause of your problem.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 16, 2013 04:51AM

gordon451б
your problem is definitely in UA-string field.

I've set the default UA for Twin as
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Firefox/3.6.28

Yes, it's not very good for 'spreading a word' about KM existence but it works.

So I've taken some research which ends with that important message for all


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74.0 for test and feedback! Get it there!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2013 08:40AM by rodocop.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: gordon451
Date: June 16, 2013 10:07AM

Hi guenter, JamesD, rodocop -

I'm a bit suspicious of the UA string theory. (rodocop, I'll try your new UA later...)

ONE: IE9x32 also fails to show the Google map in the Fuelwatch search results.

TWO: Opera 12.01 does show the map.

THREE: I inserted the Opera UA {Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; U; WOW64; en) Presto/2.10.289 Version/12.01} into KM and could not see the map.

FOUR: On IE and KM, there is no sign the map is loading at all. Opera shows the loading process clearly.

So if IE can't see the map, and KM can't see it either, this indicates I have a system setting somewhere. Javascript is on in both browsers, as all other functions work as planned. There are two iffy scriptlets in Fuelwatch:
<script type="text/javascript">try { document.execCommand('BackgroundImageCache', false, true); } catch(e) {}</script>
<script src="http://maps.google.com/maps?file=api&amp;v=3&amp;sensor=false&amp;key=ABQIAAAAs5hzZJ_Thbdtbd4ahwrC5BTC9t5QBSBdeeURuFN-yp1SwPVJNRS6Z-fLsvbRoTt62ky13xbPLrzhrA"; type="text/javascript"></script>
I know what the "try" is supposed to do, but notice the error-detection is very primitive and amateurish: it doesn't even provide an alert!

If I navigate to the maps.google in the second scriptlet, it downloads a file for me:
function GBrowserIsCompatible() {return false;}alert("This web site needs a different Google Maps API key. A new key can be generated at http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/javascript/v2/introduction.html#Obtaining_Key.");function GUnload() {}var G_API_VERSION;
although I see no evidence the scriptlet has done anything when I run the page.

Does KM share any APIs with IE that would affect both Gecko and Trident?



EDIT: @rodocop - I tried your UA, but alas! it failed sad smiley

Gordon.

____________________
Gigabyte H61M-USB3-B3 r2.0, I5-2400 3.10GHz, 4GB RAM; W7HPx64 SP1, Lotus SmartSuite 9.8, K-Meleon74.24, Opera 12.17, IE11, Eudora 6.2, Foxit Reader 5.3.1.0606, PaintShop Pro 6.02, Avast! 10.0.2206

____________________
Early to bed and early to rise makes a bloke crook, broke and stupid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2013 04:59PM by gordon451.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 16, 2013 08:20PM

@ Gordon

I don't believe that user agent string is your problem. I can see and manipulate the map using KM's default string. I can also work the site using my IE-10. I am using both KM and IE pretty much as delivered. I have the default configurations in both.

Since the Fuelwatch site works for my KM, I would have to say they are not using user agent to deny any browser.

Do you use a firewall or some add-blocking software? I had the KM CSS add-blocking on in the last test that I did and the site still worked fine.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 16, 2013 08:42PM

gordon451,
yes IE8 also works fine there.

That is your PC config what causes the glitch.


Try K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug // KM-16-S2014 by Fred // 1.6beta2.6 by JamesD

K-Meleon Twin+ Download for modern browsers =//= Download for old ones =//= Discuss it!!!

New KM74.0 for test and feedback! Get it there!


Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: jimbo
Date: June 16, 2013 10:23PM

It would be truly a miracle if K-Meleon would survive in today's rapidly changing web.

BTW, google will stop supporting and updating chrome frame from Jan. 2014 on.
http://blog.chromium.org/2013/06/retiring-chrome-frame.html

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: gordon451
Date: June 17, 2013 07:14PM

Quote
rodocop
That is your PC config what causes the glitch.

I also think that is on the right track. But it has to be a Windows API glitch, 'cos Opera works the site perfectly.

Quote
JamesD
Do you use a firewall or some add-blocking software?

No. I have KM, IE and Opera set to deny pop-ups, that's all. My NAT-router does all the firewall I need, and I use Avast! for virus &etc-killing.

I think I should try resetting IE to bog-standard (I'm not sure I can remove and reinstall it), and remove and reinstall KM to bog-standard.

Gordon.

____________________
Gigabyte H61M-USB3-B3 r2.0, I5-2400 3.10GHz, 4GB RAM; W7HPx64 SP1, Lotus SmartSuite 9.8, K-Meleon74.24, Opera 12.17, IE11, Eudora 6.2, Foxit Reader 5.3.1.0606, PaintShop Pro 6.02, Avast! 10.0.2206

____________________
Early to bed and early to rise makes a bloke crook, broke and stupid.

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: CJ
Date: June 18, 2013 03:56PM

There was a time when K-Meleon was the first program I installed on a new PC, closely followed by Winamp. But sadly that is no longer the case.

On my Win7/64 machines now I use Cyberfox which is a 64bit recompile of Firefox. While no version of Firefox could ever be called "light" it is nonetheless very FAST and that's what matters most.

Time moves on and ultimately we have to move with it. I still love my Winamp though smiling smiley

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: kingsparrow
Date: June 19, 2013 01:03PM

Bored...............with other browsers. Going back to k-mel again, downloaded the 1.5 kmel, just wondering if there was an update, bugfix, as noted on download page, "Last Update: 2013-05-08"?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmeleon/

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: guenter
Date: June 20, 2013 01:21AM

Quote
kingsparrow
Bored...............with other browsers. Going back to k-mel again, downloaded the 1.5 kmel, just wondering if there was an update, bugfix, as noted on download page, "Last Update: 2013-05-08"?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmeleon/

1) Is the Tagalog word really bored? IMHO They simply lack the powerful GUI, settings and search config of the KMel. But they have all the maven HTML and Java Script engines.

2) Go to this part of the projects.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmeleon/files/k-meleon-dev/ 1.6 and 1.7 is stable enough. There are also user updates in the Forums.

There is also an 1.6exe & plugin with bugfixes from IMHO Dorian from last summer, though I do not recall where.

Greetings to PH from DE

Re: Is K-Meleon Dead?
Posted by: kingsparrow
Date: June 20, 2013 09:49AM

Welcome, guenter, Mabuhay,

Yes, I understand about the 1.6 and the 1.7a beta's, last i was using was dugbud's 1.6dbns but what interest me was where are the 2012 bugfix of Dorian, to what version of K-mel? Thanks

I tried the 1.5.4 version before and did not like it compared to the better 1.6 and 1.7 but I am enjoying it now with javascript turned off.................

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