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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: guenter
Date: February 27, 2012 06:51AM

Quote
douglas sherriff

Downloading new versions became mildly hazardous, lose bookmarks etc,


besides win 98 support was becoming close to being set aside.


It is odd, I have 3 machines running win 98, or mint, and 2 that run XP or Ubuntu. Which ones do I run by preference?

What is my browser of preference?

You guess.

Addendum:

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FYI, this is odious, perhaps execrable.

1.) A bug about hazards & loosing bookmarks is not known to me and OT here.


2.) K-Meleon project has never been about creating a HTML engine or a compiler that is specifically supporting Win 98. So IMHO Win98 support is not set aside.

Let me elaborate a little. smiling smiley K-Meleon is about a browser shell for the Mozilla Gecko Rendering Engine. The aim is to embed the GRE into the native Windows API via Microsoft Foundation Class. MFCembed was originally a free Visual Studio 6 C++ handout by Microsoft to embed IE's HTML rendering engine into Windows applications that need HTML rendering. MFCembed code was latter used and adapted by Mozilla Corp to embed their own GRE into a prototype Windows application called MFCembed.exe. That was the example on how to embed their HTML renderer into a Windows application. It was also a test harness whether this was possible. Mozilla Corps's MFCembed.exe was used by the K-Meleon projects founder. Christophe Thibault, a specialist in lean skinable light weight GUI development, created a skinable MFCembed.exe. His project names often started with k-. grinning smiley

During the next 10 years this project evolved into the IMHO most flexible and light wight browser shell ever.

The Mozilla Corp's support for their MFCembed code has been canceled recently. And before that it had been half heartened at best for many years and versions. The K-Meleon developers had to bite the bullet each time they had to adapt K-Meleon's code to a new GRE. It often took a year or two to do it. But this time it is not clear whether it can be done for GRE 1.9.2.x, 2.0... Plus the C++ developer most experienced with adapting it, who has done this since 2005, has no time and new c++ coders are not in sight.


The compilers that support Win98 do not compile a HTML engine that supports Win98. The main reason for this is simple. The new HTML versions require features that Win98 does not have. So Win 98 does not support out of the box the features needed to run K-Meleon 1.6eta's GRE 1.9.1.x nor K-Meleon 1.7alpha's GRE 1.9.2.x. Nor does Win 98 support native K-Meleon features like Unicode support.

KernelEx is the project that adds Win 98 support for features that are needed by modern free HTML rendering engines such as Mozilla Gecko and Google Webkit.

A compiler project that targets Win98 specifically and adds new features to it is not known to me.confused smiley


For Win98 it is sufficient to add the needed features and camouflage as a newer system. The later because this is needed by the runtimes that can execute the modern code. The runtime's error prevention excludes Win98 because it does not know to check for features. Thus K-Meleon.org should not invest any extra work to work around Win98's current limitations. Even if this was possible. Which is IMHO not the case.


3.) Spam. This forum was flooded with automated spam until it took several man hours a day to remove. Have You ever tried to delete spam when new posts come in faster than You can delete? So if a word/string is persistently used in spam messages the word/string is blocked. If a string that is needed by a poster who does not know how to circumvene the block, he/she can contact a moderator. The moderator will counsel on how 2 or maybe remove the banned string from the list.

The passage about JavaScript is IMHO not correct. It is done AFAIK with a word list and a server based scripting language.




At PokePeek. Thanks for the info on how to proceed without extending Win98's capabilities with Kernel Ex. There is also a thread with CSS fixes for some sites.
Maybe cross post the info there?

And thx for taking the trouble to format.

Since You point to the limitations of the forum. One way to work around format troubles in normal posts where the user did not find a way around them - press quote answer and it will show the original format of the code.

You can just suggest that the users do that to retrieve Your code and leave it as is. I am lazy and prefer this instead of editing the code.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 11:48AM by guenter.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: kay
Date: March 02, 2012 03:13PM

I used Firefox for many years. Something like since 1998 or so, when I found out about it. That sleek little Firefox is long gone. It became bloaty and huge. I used it because it was lightweight and FAST.

Originally I had just stuck with the newest version that had everything I liked about it (Version 2), but with my systems running Windows 7 x64, that version simply didn't work. I upgraded to version 3, and saw a ton of issues with it hogging CPU and the page doing this "I'm going to grey out now, while your CPU spins to catch up to me, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it!!!"

Figuring it was just that version 3 was too old to handle my 50-open-tabs, I switched to version 10. Same thing. I dealt with it for a good long time, but when I heard someone say it was a known problem, I gave up.

I did a google search for "lightweight web browser windows", and K-melon was at the top of the list. I just downloaded it, and I like what I see so far. I'm very picky about how my browser looks and acts. I HATE the look of the new Firefox (worst thing they've ever done) though you can bring it back close to the old style, I dislike Chrome's look and distrust that they aren't saving everything I do (much like gmail / google does), and IE having the right-click "New Tab" option at the bottom and the "Close Tab" at the top, means I close tabs by accident way too often.

I stopped by this forum to see how I can import my bookmarks from Firefox - it only seems to want to automagically import from IE... figured I'd put in my .02c while I was here. smiling smiley

It might "do everything that FF can do" functionally, but I'm hoping it does it without being a CPU hog. smiling smiley

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: guenter
Date: March 02, 2012 03:22PM

Quote
kay

I stopped by this forum to see how I can import my bookmarks from Firefox - it only seems to want to automagically import from IE... figured I'd put in my .02c while I was here. smiling smiley

Export Your Firefox bookmarks as a HTML file called bookmarks.html.
And use the file as K-Meleon bookmarks.

Further info in the FAQs or ask in a new thread in General.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2012 03:47PM by guenter.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: March 02, 2012 08:00PM

Kay,

Look here for extensions (KKO's macro scripting language, not Firefox's XUL XPI).

http://kmext.sourceforge.net/

There are other places, but this is a good place to start.

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2012 08:00PM by ndebord.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: km2
Date: March 05, 2012 04:20AM

Is it possible build K-m without xul completely and use 3d party framework for gui?
..

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: kjbaum
Date: March 12, 2012 04:52AM

Recently I retired my old 733 Mhz pentium machine, on which K-Meleon was a necessity, to a new machine. I thought maybe my days of needing K-Meleon were over.

Within a short time, I found myself needing K-Meleon again. I browsed a site which--as often happens with webpages--was stuffed with useless, animated, multimedia junk. I could have searched for extensions to "fix" these really annoying pages -- or I could just download and launch K-Meleon and have all that handled for me with trivial ease. What amazed me was that K-Meleon was much, much faster than Firefox for these pages, even on a brand new, lightning fast machine with several processors. What had been a painful chore in Firefox was effortless in K-Meleon.

Another time, I wanted to download an image that Firefox couldn't download because the right-click had been disabled. In this case, I *did* search for an extension to fix this, but couldn't find one. So again, I turned to K-Meleon, selected "view/images", and again -- problem instantly solved.

It's the sheer ease of handling this stuff--and it *should* be easy to handle these kinds of things--that sets K-Meleon apart for me. As far as I'm concerned, K-Meleon is still more a advanced browser than the competition in a number of ways. I'm really grateful for it.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: john
Date: March 12, 2012 04:05PM

i like k-meleon,but now we have few c++ developers,that's a big problem.
k-meleon is necessary for me!

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: km2
Date: March 12, 2012 04:35PM

Quote

few c++ developers

Except main developer. No one at moment..

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: margarita
Date: April 01, 2012 07:20AM

I am a former user of Kmeleon in my new computer but when I visit my parents it's the only choice for me because my old computer is not enough for the new browsers. But this reason should not be enough for any user to maintain Kmeleon as the prioritary browser, considering that Maxthon last version beats html5 test, over Chrome, Firefox and Opera, all very powerfull browsers. We can not close the eyes and we must recognize that something is changing in the browser's evolution when Maxthon beats Chrome. Html5 is now the end line of the marathon. I think Kmeleon is a good choice but only when no other browsers can't be used in the computer. In fact, I install Kmeleon in every old computer I find. A new version is needed before summer because all the main browsers will include several advanced options for html5 before July, according to their main development plans. o.O

http://html5test.com/

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: April 01, 2012 08:53AM

Quote
km2
Is it possible build K-m without xul completely and use 3d party framework for gui?
..

km2,

Can't find the right thread, but the short answer is yes. The other possible engine is WebKit and you could port over KKO's macro scripting language, bu the rest would be a total redo.

Still need a C++ developer

N

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: JohnHell
Date: April 01, 2012 10:28PM

Just as a side note, margarita, Maxthon is only (from when it was called MyIE) an interface for Internet Explorer engine (in some way, the same as K-meleon for Gecko) so, to be honest with the truth, which is better is Internet Explorer 9 ;)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:32PM by JohnHell.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: Yogi
Date: April 01, 2012 10:32PM

@ margarita

From the homepage of Maxthon:
Quote

Maxthon 3 comes with a browser engine that draws web pages 200% faster than Google Chrome.

I would take with a grain of salt such claims.
- Maxthon uses the Trident and the WebKit engine.
- None of the modern browsers can draw on an average web pages 200% faster than the competition.

I would take with a grain of salt speed tests as well, for reasons stated here on the forums several times before.

Last but not least usability and transparency are more important than a few hundred milliseconds.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: margarita
Date: April 02, 2012 10:28AM

Quote
JohnHell
Just as a side note, margarita, Maxthon is only (from when it was called MyIE) an interface for Internet Explorer engine (in some way, the same as K-meleon for Gecko) so, to be honest with the truth, which is better is Internet Explorer 9 ;)

You`re right smiling smiley
o.O

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: margarita
Date: April 02, 2012 10:56AM

Quote
Yogi
@ margarita
From the homepage of Maxthon:
Quote

Maxthon 3 comes with a browser engine that draws web pages 200% faster than Google Chrome.
I would take with a grain of salt such claims.
- Maxthon uses the Trident and the WebKit engine.
- None of the modern browsers can draw on an average web pages 200% faster than the competition.
I would take with a grain of salt speed tests as well, for reasons stated here on the forums several times before.
Last but not least usability and transparency are more important than a few hundred milliseconds.

HTML5 TEST
BROWSER POINTS (BONUS)
Maxthon 3.3 » 382 (15)
Chrome 17 » 374 (13)
Firefox 11 » 335 (9)
Opera 11.60 » 329 (9)
Safari 5.1 » 301 (8)
Internet Explorer 9 » 141 (5)
Chrome Canary dev» 379 (13)
Safari 5.2 dev» 367 (8)
Opera 12.00 dev» 350 (9)
Internet Explorer 10 dev» 314 (6)
Chrome 16 » 374 (13)
Firefox 10 » 332 (9)
Firefox 9 » 330 (9)
Firefox 7 » 327 (9)
Opera 11.50 » 287 (7)
Opera 11.10 » 279 (7)
Opera 10.60 » 232 (7)
Kmeleon 1.6.0b2 » 169 (4) * this data is mine
Internet Explorer 8 » 41 (0)
Kmeleon 1.5.4 » 40 (0) * this data is mine
Internet Explorer 7 » 26 (0)
Internet Explorer 6 » 25 (0)

I don't believe the speed they promise, 200% is too high to be believed, I only wanted to touch the point of the modern evolution according to the html5 test points and bonus obtained. I think that's the goal for the future, nothing else. However, you're right too in the other questions smiling smiley, o.O

http://html5test.com/

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: margarita
Date: April 02, 2012 11:30AM

Quote
margarita
Quote
JohnHell
Just as a side note, margarita, Maxthon is only (from when it was called MyIE) an interface for Internet Explorer engine (in some way, the same as K-meleon for Gecko) so, to be honest with the truth, which is better is Internet Explorer 9 ;)

You're right smiling smiley
o.O
Sorry I posted last one when I wanted to preview only tongue sticking out smiley
Actually Maxthon runs with Webkit too.
I have no words to describe Webkit... It's amazing fast sad smiley
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/535.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Maxthon/3.0 Safari/535.3 >>> this is what scores 382 in html5 test :/
o.O

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: margarita
Date: April 07, 2012 08:02AM

New record in html5 test, Google Chrome 18.0.1025.151m, with 400 points and 13 point out of a total of 500 points. o.O

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: bksening
Date: June 04, 2012 08:15PM

I was going to post about something else, but I just saw the previous post so I might as well add:

Google Chrome nightly 21.0.1162.0, 442 points and 13 bonus points out of a total of 500 points.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: bksening
Date: June 04, 2012 08:18PM

So the original thing I was going to post about:

Mozilla has finished with their VS2010 compiler conversion, and Firefox 13 (to be released tomorrow?) only supports XP Service Pack 2 or later.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: June 05, 2012 06:30AM

I don't really care what Chrome and Firefox do. They do not have the MacroLanguage. As long as my bank accepts K-Meleon, it is my default browser.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: km2
Date: June 05, 2012 09:00PM

test hardly synced to browser settings..
Also, less points - better security, more speed.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: panzer
Date: June 20, 2012 02:38PM

I have yesterday, for the first time ever, seen K-Meleon being reviewed by one of our computer magazines.

The final verdict: Too bad it is not updated anymore since it is very good browser. Only complaint they had is that it doesn't have as much extensions as FF or Chrome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2012 02:42PM by panzer.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: rodocop
Date: June 20, 2012 07:56PM

panzer,
what magazine? I'm really surprised.

_____________________________________
Using K-Meleon-1.6db+NS by dugbug / KM-16-S2014
1.6beta2.6 by JamesD
_____________________________________
Recommending K-Meleon Twin+`||`Discuss it!!!
_____________________________________
New KM74 for test and feedback! Get It!

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: panzer
Date: June 21, 2012 06:46PM

Monitor - special edition for summer 2012:
http://www.monitor.si/images/novice/slika/monitor_poletje.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2012 06:47PM by panzer.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: foobarly
Date: October 15, 2012 09:16PM

I'm an ancient user of K-Meleon who obviously hasn't been around much, but I couldn't pass the opportunity to join the debate here.

Let me start by avowing that I jumped KM's ship around v1.5, when I started feeling that setting up KM was turning akin to running in a maze (fun, but unpractical). I have been a steady Firefox user ever since (in fact, I use the Pale Moon Project builds), ocasionally resorting to Opera for backup.

And yes, although I'm not sure how, I firmly believe that K-Meleon should be developed further.

I'm not a developer, so my grasp of the issues outlined by snuz2, rodocop, guenter and all the other enlightened KM hardliners is rather faint, to say the least. But I do know that KM was the BEST browser I ever used.

What future do I envision for it? As it once was, it should be easy to install (or not, if ran portably) and be ready to be used immediately. It should also uphold its Windows allegiance, making adaptation to current versions also a goal. Other goals are derived from the reasons that made it what it is -- lightweightness and customizability. The Gecko engine, XUL, or any macro language are keepers while they fit in the general KM purposes and philosophy; should they become burdens and given the current wealth of other choices, nobody should hesitate to toss them out...

The result: a browser whose foundation is an easy retrievable and customizable Web browsing framework, coupled with all the basic amenities that characterise current run of the mill browsers (standard GUI, extensions/plugins/whathaveyou, and compliance with Web standards, currently first and foremost HTML5).

Come to think of it, this might be nothing like the old KM anymore (I get the uneasy feeling this would be easier to achieve with the WebKit engine wraped in DotNet code, resulting in a QtWeb/QupZilla analogue). If it is so, then so be it...

There, I spewed my beans. Not that'll make much difference... grinning smiley

--- sig ---




Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2012 04:04AM by foobarly.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: CyberKid
Date: November 30, 2012 05:05PM

I like it, but it runs too fast (memory usage) many times, and gets stuck, and I have to close it , run spyware, then open it back up again. It seems like it can't handle flash very well.

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Re: Do we really need to keep Kmeleon?
Posted by: 4td8s
Date: December 12, 2012 09:03PM

Quote
CyberKid
I like it, but it runs too fast (memory usage) many times, and gets stuck, and I have to close it , run spyware, then open it back up again. It seems like it can't handle flash very well.

which versions of flash player can KM not handle, CyberKid?
seems to handle flash 10.x and 11.x okay on my machines.

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