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Will the New K-Meleon Version Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 16, 2010 10:14PM

Currently using KM 1.5.4 with Windows 98SE ... will the newer version 1.6.0a4 work with Windows 98SE ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 07:16PM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: danny
Date: September 16, 2010 10:42PM

Apps sharing Gecko 1.9 are not win98, ME, NT compatible http://kb.mozillazine.org/Windows_98/ME_not_supported_-_Sunbird

Getting K-Meleon and Gecko 1.9.1 to run under Win9x http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?2,93384,105798

K-meleon 1.6 on Kernelex WIN ME / 98 http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?2,103551

http://sourceforge.net/projects/kernelex/

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: 4td8s
Date: September 17, 2010 12:49AM

in other words, duffy2009, yes and no.

No, new K-meleon 1.6 (based on gecko 1.9.x) will not run under Win98se/WinME by itself

Yes, new KM 1.6 may work under 98se/ME ONLY if you install KernelEx and the required 98se/ME patches & addons.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 17, 2010 01:58AM

Nice links danny smiling smiley

Must say I'm rather happy about the current development version:

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?2,109196,page=2
Quote
desga2
Download preBeta (alias cp4) {Mirror}

There are still some minor issues, but considering that gecko1.9 is not supposed to run on win98 at all, it's running already very, very nicely on mine grinning smiley And those 'issues' seem to be rather related to the beta-state than to my good ol' trusty win98se system.

Except transparency:
Lots of website favicons look either black or completely messy, but can live with that. It's just really ugly, but perhaps there's some trick? Some setting or anything...

By the way in the new default skin Aura Alpha (really pretty buttons, but horrible background), some buttons need to be updated yet for win98: none of its privacy bar buttons has any readable text on it, and IIRC the Find-in-Page buttons on the bottom bar are black, and the background of the favorites etc. icons in the flip-out menu. The other buttons are already fixed and look fine.
Personally no prob since I continue using my old skin anyway, and that looks in KM1.6 exactly like in KM1.5 smiling smiley Has nothing to do with the KM version, only image format.

PS: When I was recently testing with the default skin Aura, I was missing so badly especially the Adblock-Button, that I just gave up and copied over my whole old profile - perhaps that button could be added yet? It's quite handy for toggling and testing own CSS styles without needing to restart all the time ;-)

Edit:
Forgot something: On pages that contain exotic characters like chinese, KM1.5 displayed "?" instead, but KM1.6 shows some big UTF-16 like looking box with 4 characters in it - for every single letter! Have tried playing with encoding settings and about:config stuff, but no idea how to get the old "?" display back?
Example: userstyles.org/styles/18619



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 02:52AM by siria.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: guenter
Date: September 17, 2010 04:18AM

Quote
siria
By the way in the new default skin Aura Alpha (really pretty buttons, but horrible background), some buttons need to be updated yet for win98:

I do not think that there is a way to update the skins button for 98 transparency.

AFAIK it is a win 98 "feature".

A skin can IMHO not have bugs that are win 98 selective grinning smiley

p.s. What disrupted or I could give for win 98 is an Aura skin where transparency is done with magic pink. I 've done have one in magic pink for a SeaMonkey 1.8 GRE compiled with VC8 which is faster than VC7.1 compiled ones but has optical problems.

siria, du kannst mir gern erklären, was bei einigen Bildern mit dem Format anders ist smiling smiley Ich nehm auch gern Hinweise für Software an, die es besser können.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 04:24AM by guenter.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 17, 2010 04:30AM

It's been awhile but there was a topic here somewhere about new Button Transparency...
In the beginning half the Aura main buttons were messed too, but they were fixed afterwards, just not all toolbars yet smiling smiley And in IrfanView the image background is black, for (working) mainbar and (not working) privbar alike - not pink!

Hat irgendwas mit der Transparenz-Art zu tun, irgendne komplizierte Einstellung oder sowas... Aber es geht, wirklich auch ohne pink grinning smiley Die Main Buttons gehen auch, und in IrfanView haben die nen schwarzen Hintergrund.

Can't find the old thread, but found an old screenshot of mine. Just checked, still looks the same in KM1.6cp4 :




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 04:51AM by siria.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: guenter
Date: September 17, 2010 04:53AM

Ich fürchte, dass es damit zu tun hat, dass nicht alles gleich programmiert ist.
Falls ich recht erinnere.

Um die Idee zu testen, musst du Buttons, die gehen so umbenennen, dass sie an Stelle derjenigen geladen werden, wo es Probleme gibt. Sieht zwar komisch aus - prüft aber die Technik.

Wie auch immer dein Ergebis ist, ich werde keinen einzigen Button neu machen.
Magic Pink ist IMHO gut genug.

Das bringt nicht, was Dorian zu erwarteten schien. Es ist nicht so viel leichter. Wenn überhaupt!
Es werden nicht massenweise Skins geportet werden, der Aufwand ist einfach zu heftig!

siria, da du sicher bist, dass es geht - versuch es selbst. Ich bin gespannt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 05:06AM by guenter.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 17, 2010 03:14PM

Did some experimenting, hoping to identify some property that was different between a transparent and a opaque black toolbar. Haven't found it yet, but guess what? Pixelformer is actually able to open the black privacy bar and show the background transparent, making suddenly the black font visible!! surprised smiley Hmm... only dawns on me now: The background WAS correctly transparent, just the BLACK font was it too! surprised smiley

Didn't find any different properties between the two test files, then tried to export the black one with the various offered pixelformer options, but still no luck for KM.
Then gave up and made the privacy background PINK grinning smiley Frankly, after a closer look especially the privbar doesn't have a single "fuzzy" pixel, the text is all pure black, and the tiny rectangles too of course. So there's really no advantage in making the two privbars 2x 56kB in millions of colors for anyone. 2x 14kB in good old pinky mode look exactly the same in KM, and save 70% filesize smiling smiley
Am rather surprised to find so many toolbars in the (Large) folder, even more than in the normal one? Aside from the enlarged buttons it contains also unnecessary copies of the normal-sized toolbars, like privbar, blowing up folder size. Probably overlooked?

I do understand there are also toolbars with more artistic icons and "fuzzy borders", like the mainbar, which really have an advantage with "magic black" grinning smiley Gratefully someone has already figured out how to save it in a way that black transparency also works in win98.
Looking at those fuzzy borders on main buttons again, I dimly start remembering, really very dim but... Perhaps it was some sort of semi-transparency setting which is the prob in win98? The color of the alpha-channel doesn't matter, it's just that single pixels must not be partly transparent or such... Not sure, just a guess and very vague memory!

To sum it up again: There seem 3 states of toolbars in Aura, all with black alpha background:
1) main bar works fine, pretty buttons on transparent back
2) privacy bar works half: Transparent black text on transparent black back!
3) Find-buttons, bookmark folders etc.: icons are showing but opaque black background



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 03:24PM by siria.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 17, 2010 06:16PM

Thanks danny, siria and everyone else for the information on Win 98SE and the newer KM. Couldn't get back on the internet to reply till now. I am glad to hear there might be hope for the newer KM to work with Win 98SE ... siria, since you have actually tried things out, I will take one of my notebooks and try the newer version out. I use the Klassic skin on v1.5.4 ... like that one very much, since it was a little like IE 6 when I first tried KM out last year, so from what you said, this skin should still work for me with the new KM. What version are you actually using ... 1.6.0a4? I read the links danny posted ... it would be nice if we can get Win 98SE to totally work with the newer version ... but that is where you guys with the knowledge and knowhow come in. A lot of what you talk about is over my head until I read everything you post and then I usually begin to understand what you are saying or I ask more questions. Thanks again guys, this is one of my best forums to hang out at ... everybody is friendly and always trying to help others out.

... siria, I guess there is only that one version (1.6.0a4) available ... for some reason I thought there was another experimental version out there. Will the Klassic skin work 100% with it?

... I missed the version preBeta (alias cp4) {Mirror} that you mentioned in your first post ... I guess this is newer than v1.6.0a4 ... I will download both versions.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 06:36PM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: guenter
Date: September 17, 2010 06:33PM

siria, You are talking riddles. Can You name horse and rider?
K-Meleon version, skin version, redundant file?

I case You mean menu1.bmp, menu2.bmp, menu3.bmp. All three are referenced by menuicons.cfg and they contain some pics that are present in 16pix skin but not in other sizes skins. Others might be included to give users options. The prototypes that were submitted to the devs are still at the xhost place You know. They contain several options.


Support of transparency means that e.g. half transparency is supported by 98 versions in the same way as in NT versions. Else it is not (fully) supported.

If semi transparency is not supported You cannot port skins pictures from PNG format with partial transparency e.g. from Firefox skins. You have to draw new icons that look similar or alike instead! Some of our pics are redrawn!

And that lack of support is exactly what creates the blackish borders in Your screenshot.

It does not make a positive difference if semi transparency is not possible because magic pink does not know it or windows 98 does not know it with alpha channel bmp. The net result is that current standard visual possibilities cannot be used in K-Meleon skins.

And few or No modern looking skins IMHO would be contra productive.

p.s. I attached an 24px Aura skin that is only in magic pink. Few redundant files smiling smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 01:36AM by guenter.

Attachments: 24pxAuraOfPhoenity.7z (66.7 KB)  
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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 17, 2010 07:19PM

4td8s ... I already have KernelEx installed ... the last stable release. Do I need to change the version to XP or leave it alone (the 3rd tab when you right click on the download) when I install the newer version of KM?

... Forget the above question ... I see that KM doesn't have to be "installed" in the newer versions ... just copy the KM folder to "Program Files".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 07:49PM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 17, 2010 11:41PM

OK siria or anyone, I downloaded, unzipped both newer versions ... when I click on the KM icon to open either version ... I get an error box and nothing goes any further. I have KernelEx installed and tried right clicking the KM icon and changed the compatibility to Win XP SP2. Always get the error box.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 18, 2010 02:34AM

Hmm... riddling... what does the error say?
Of course all our systems are a bit different, after all those years even more. And it's also necessary to have certain windows updates installed from Microsoft, like unicode. But I suppose you've done some updates too smiling smiley

desga's cp4-version is quite complete and portable out-of-the-box, so there shouldn't be any probs due to some pesky missing visual dll's or such.

Perhaps the kernel-ex version? I'm using 4.5beta2, published in last february, and so far am quite happy with it. Of course I never know, if anything doesn't work, whether it was some program or kex or myself or whatever cool smiley
http://sourceforge.net/projects/kernelex/files/
I did have some probs when kernel-ex was set to permanently enabled, but then I used the option that it kicks in only when expressly set for a program, and that works definitely best on my machine. Only rarely some old program, that work well before, will choke now when starting, but then I can just set another compatibility in the tab and it works fine again :-))

My KM1.6 is set to XP-SP2. Remember that if moving the exe elsewhere, the compatibility is forgotten and must be set again...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 02:36AM by siria.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 18, 2010 03:38PM

siria ... I have KernelEx 4.0 Final 2 by Xeno86 installed. I will download version 4.5 Beta 2 and also the latest version 4.5 RC 1, out on Aug 01,2010. I will experiment today or tomorrow and post good or bad news with any error messages. Hopefully the newer KernelEx version will fix things up. There was a newer version of KernelEx out on Sep 10th but it has been pulled since lots of crashes were being reported.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 03:56PM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 19, 2010 10:35PM

Well I have tried to install the new K-Meleon versions but have had no luck. I can't get the new KernelEx 4.5 RC 1 installed. I had KernelEx 4.0 Final2 installed and have no trouble reinstalling that version but everytime I try installing ver 4.5 RC 1 I get an error message window. After re-installing the older KernelEx back on the notebook I have tried both newer KM versions and they go so far but stop before KM opens up with an error message. I will continue to read the forum to see if there are more Windows 98SE users able to use the newer KM versions ... if it actually becomes standard, maybe someone can post an easy step by step instruction with all the right versions they are using to get the newer KM versions to work with Win 98SE.

thanks ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2010 10:40PM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 19, 2010 10:39PM

Have you also tried KEx version 4.5beta2, which works for me...?
I haven't tried RC1 yet, as there were some bug reports in their forum. Guess b2 is better ;-)

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 19, 2010 10:49PM

siria ... I wasn't able to find that version so I settled for 4.5 RC 1 ... RC 2 and RC 3 were taken down, because of problems, and RC 1 was the recommended download. I will go back to the website and hunt for the Feb 2010 version that you are using.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 19, 2010 11:09PM
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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 19, 2010 11:25PM

OK siria ... couldn't find that version at the KernelEx website so thanks for the link. Have downloaded the Beta2 version and will go offline to try everything out. Yes, there is still hope!

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 20, 2010 12:40AM

siria ... back to square one ... the Beta version also will not install. I can install the last official stable version (4.0 Final2) with no problem but these newer versions will not install. Almost immediately a message pops up stating that an illegal operation has been performed and the program will close. Guess I will be staying with KM 1.5.4 ... everything works just fine with that version. I may have several years (I hope) that this version will continue to work for me on the internet. I will try a newer version of KernelEx later on when it is announced as a "Final" stable version. Thanks again for all your help ... I will continue reading the forum for any new developments concerning Win 98SE and a newer version of K-Meleon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 12:42AM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 20, 2010 01:30AM

Too bad sad smiley
Perhaps it has to do with some microsoft windows update stuff for win98, or could be anything, no idea.

Well, I just decided to take a quick look into the discussion forum for Kernel-Ex:
http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/91-windows-9x-member-projects/
and stumbled your post there grinning smiley I hope they can help!

Ages ago I had an account there too, which hopefully still exists, just can't remember the details at the moment, not without searching some old notes of mine cool smiley
One thing I just remembered when reading your post: When I had last switched the KEx-version, I messed it up big time too! That was when I thought I simply uninstall the old version and directly after install the new one. Oops... The result got me a "bit" sweating, LOL! But as usual my trusty old system 'repaired itself' again after two restarts *whew*. Since then I know it is important to first uninstall KEx, then shut down the whole system, start it again, only then install the new KEx-version, and shut down the system yet again, and start it AGAIN ;-)

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 20, 2010 02:23AM

yes, I posted the error message that I am getting at the MSFN forum. I am holding on to a "little" hope that someone there, in the KernelEx thread, will shed some light on the problem. After I signed off before, I got my other notebook out and tried the KernelEx Beta (your version) on it, no go with it also ... same error message on it also that I posted at the MSFN forum. Like you said, could be anything messing things up. Both my notebooks are set up pretty much the same. I was hoping some others would try all this out and post their results. That way I could see if other people are having the same problem as me or if they are having your luck and all is well and working. Again, I appreciate your (others also) help and the extra effort. I will post any news or new developments from my end.

... I also wasn't real sure whether to uninstall the older KernelEx first or install over it. I decided to uninstall that version and try the newer versions fresh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 02:26AM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 20, 2010 04:48AM

Well I was able to get a newer version of KernelEx installed. The developer of the program gave me the solution to my KernelEx problem. The "kernel32.bak" file was missing and I followed his instructions to fix everything ... version 4.5 RC 1 installed with no problem. I have not tried the newer K-Meleon Beta version yet ... was just happy to get a newer version of KernelEx installed ... now for the next part ... can I get a newer version of K-Meleon installed ??? I will go off line to try that now. I decided to try KernelEx 4.5 RC 1 first, if it doesn't seem to work very well then I will install the Beta version you are using.

What caused my KernelEx problem is that I have a hard drive "junk file" cleaning program on my computer and "bak" files are one of the type of files that it cleans. I have put the kernel32.bak on the Protect List and also made a spare backup copy to be burned to a CD. Shouldn't have this problem ever again.

In case someone else has this problem ... here are his instructions to fix the problem:

KernelEx Uninstall

This basically means that backup file for KERNEL32.DLL was missing during uninstall which couldn't be fully completed and you're locked at v4.0 final2

Follow these steps to recover from this situation and allow upgrades:

Quote
1. Click on "Start" button
2. Select "Run..."
3. Type "sfc" and click "OK" - this will run "System File Checker" utility
4. Select "Extract one file from installation disk"
5. Type "kernel32.dll" in the edit box below
6. Click on "Start"
7. Insert you Windows 98 SE CD-ROM
8. Choose approperiate path to CD, eg. "D:\WIN98\" in first edit box
9. Click "OK"
10. Choose if (and where) you want backup old file
11. When asked to reboot click "Yes"


... Hope it is helpful.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 20, 2010 05:02AM

Thanks for updating us smiling smiley I'm also rather curious about other win98-users trying KM1.6, how many can run it and what it takes for it. I dimly remember there was a win98 "without SE" user who had trouble and gave up, but 98se should work, hopefully for as many people as possible :-)

Quote
duffy2009
What caused my KernelEx problem is that I have a hard drive "junk file" cleaning program on my computer and "bak" files are one of the type of files that it cleans.

YIKES surprised smiley No wonder, if all backups are considered as "junk" and deleted, waah... surprised smiley
That will certainly not be the last time this gets you in such troubles.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 20, 2010 06:13AM

OK ... almost complete success ... I got the K-Meleon desga's cp4-version to completely open up with no errors. Now my problem is that everything is black and I can't read anything on the page. I tried to open Preferences so I could change to the Klassic skin but there is nothing readable, everything is black. I will read again what you posted earlier but I don't completely understand what all you did to get past the black spaces.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 06:27AM by duffy2009.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 20, 2010 06:22AM

"almost complete" sounds already great!! You're getting there... grinning smiley

So you figured already out that KEx4.5 is needed (beta or higher), and KEx4.0 works not. So far so well smiling smiley

Ah wait, with "all black" - do you happen to mean just the toolbars?
Open your profile folder and add to the end of "prefs.js"
user_pref("kmeleon.general.skinsCurrent", "Klassic");
Or create a new profile and copy inside it your current KM1.5x profile (the tabs must NOT be set to bottom).
You could also copy over your current skin folder, just make sure not to overwrite any default stuff, perhaps rename your skin folder to "myskin" or whatever, and use that in the prefs.js ...

Then again... I really can't quite imagine what that "all black" really means, slightly confused, perhaps post a screenshot...?
Perhaps another update from Microsoft windows update necessary?



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 06:38AM by siria.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 20, 2010 06:47AM

Yes, I corrected my earlier post ... it is the desga's cp4-version. OK I can copy over what you said ... When I open the desga's cp4-version I just see all black spaces ... nothing on the page is readable ... I can read the toolbars across the top and see the icons ... for instance, Edit will open and I can see Preferences but when I click on it a black area opens up and I can't read anything. Any assistance appreciated.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 20, 2010 07:06AM

Hmmmm... running out of ideas... (but no wonder, am no expert at all! grinning smiley)
Probably someone else can help much better for this - anyone around?? cool smiley

The toolbars look normal and only the preferences (=XUL) are black, and webpages themselves are all black too...? And do you see black too if you go to about:config??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 07:07AM by siria.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: duffy2009
Date: September 20, 2010 07:48AM

I took 3 desktop snapshots but I don't know how to attach them to the message, if they can be attached. They aren't the best but you should be able to see what I see with KM opened.

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Re: Does the New K-Meleon Still Work With Win 98SE ?
Posted by: siria
Date: September 20, 2010 02:47PM

You can load them up to some service like imageshack.us
But first I'd check if the KM-compatibility is really set to XP... cool smiley
Because I just tested without, and then half the pages go black for me too ;-)

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