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Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Daveski17
Date: March 06, 2010 07:00PM

I installed KM 1.5.4 'over the top' of 1.5.3 & apart from the toolbars returning to default everything seems fine. All of my bookmarks were OK & everything seems great. It only took me a few minutes to re-customise.

Out of curiosity, generally what do you prefer, clean install or over the top?

K-Meleon ~ Not a Melon!

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: March 06, 2010 07:13PM

I do clean installs for all alpha, beta, and RC versions. I have a "KM_Setup_Prefs.kmm" macro which I run which gets much of the work of the preference panel done. It sets skin, tab bar stuff, homepage, etc.

When the final version is available, I just 7z the file into the K-Meleon folder which is my default browser. I back up the profile before doing that. There are some changes to toolbar.cfg that I have to make and a change for the background, but that is about all that is required.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 06, 2010 08:12PM

It all depends if someone has done a lot of customizing, but in general "over the top" seems the best method to me - provided the old profile folder and program folder is copied first cool smiley Cannot recommand that enough. And if a modified version of a default skin is used, I'd really rename that folder to something like "Phoenity(mine)", so that it doesn't get overwritten.

Personally I've done just too much customizing of default files in default folders (I10n.js, main.kmm, menus.cfg and such), that's where it gets rather bothersome to remember and add that stuff in the new default files.... But I just like to have more user agents, and pages like the error console and about:config to open in tabs instead of windows, and vanish the way too long favorites-bookmarks-hotlist text from the main menu (only keep the buttons), etc.. Most people can use the menus.cfg in profile folder for this, but not possible if special buttons with a rebar-menu are in the current skin.
Anyway, if I find something is missing, I can always look that up in the copy of the old version and get it back, even months later grinning smiley

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: desga2
Date: March 06, 2010 10:07PM

Clean install if you have little customizations and backup + over the top if you have a lot of customizations.

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: slayer
Date: March 07, 2010 04:43AM

I backup my macros and bookmarks, and then I do a clean install (uninstalling first the old version).

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: March 07, 2010 06:22AM

Quote
siria
And if a modified version of a default skin is used, I'd really rename that folder to something like "Phoenity(mine)", so that it doesn't get overwritten.

What a great idea. I have just finished setting up "MyKlassic" folder in the skins folder.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: March 08, 2010 03:58AM

James,

I do similar... have to change toolbar.cfg, accel.cfg, menus.cfg and 110.js.

The one thing that consistently escapes me though is the change in Help/about K-Meleon. It still says KM 1.5.3, not KM 1.5.4????

<weak grin>

N

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: desga2
Date: March 10, 2010 06:14AM

Quote
ndebord
The one thing that consistently escapes me though is the change in Help/about K-Meleon. It still says KM 1.5.3, not KM 1.5.4????

The version is in kmeleon.js file (\defaults\pref\), second pref line:
pref("general.useragent.vendorSub", "1.5.4");

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: March 10, 2010 08:29AM

Quote
desga2
Quote
ndebord
The one thing that consistently escapes me though is the change in Help/about K-Meleon. It still says KM 1.5.3, not KM 1.5.4????

The version is in kmeleon.js file (\defaults\pref\), second pref line:
pref("general.useragent.vendorSub", "1.5.4");

desga2,

Thanks. <weak grin> There are more than a few files that you can tweak and then lose the changes you made when you upgrade. I've got some zip files in various folders to remind me that there is where I need to restore a tweak, but this one escaped me.

Much thanks.

N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2010 12:26AM by ndebord.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Yogi
Date: March 10, 2010 02:00PM

On major version changes I prefer a clean install. A general practice regarding most software I use.
Major version changes are rather rare and the extra time for customization is something I consider to be worthwhile.
This one was a minor version change and I did an install over the top. As expected everything went fine.

Quote
ndebord
The one thing that consistently escapes me though is the change in Help/about K-Meleon. It still says KM 1.5.3, not KM 1.5.4???? <weak grin>

Help/about K-Meleon shows here the right version after the upgrade: K-Meleon 1.5.4

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 10, 2010 02:41PM

For some of the modifications in the defaults/pref folder it may work to put them in an extra file instead, name doesnt matter. Tried it recently with more useragents, and looked like it works, but now can't tell for sure anymore. But that would only help for additional pref entries, not for modified ones, which would be double in that folder...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 02:43PM by siria.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Daveski17
Date: March 10, 2010 07:18PM

Quote
Yogi
On major version changes I prefer a clean install. A general practice regarding most software I use.
Major version changes are rather rare and the extra time for customization is something I consider to be worthwhile.
This one was a minor version change and I did an install over the top. As expected everything went fine.

Hi Yogi, would you recommend a clean install when KM 1.6 is eventually released?

K-Meleon ~ Not a Melon!

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: desga2
Date: March 10, 2010 11:59PM

Quote
Daveski17
..., would you recommend a clean install when KM 1.6 is eventually released?

This is NEEDED (more than recommended) to next 1.6 version because changed some prefs and old profiles won't worked with out an updated proccess.

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Daveski17
Date: March 11, 2010 12:20AM

Quote
desga2
Quote
Daveski17
..., would you recommend a clean install when KM 1.6 is eventually released?

This is NEEDED (more than recommended) to next 1.6 version because changed some prefs and old profiles won't worked with out an updated proccess.

OK, thanks for the info desga2. I thought that would be the case. When I uninstall KM 1.5.4 (or later) to install KM 1.6 is it best to uninstall using the uninstaller in the Vista Start Menu or should I uninstall it from Programs & Features in the Control Panel? Or doesn't it matter?

The reason that I asked is because sometimes uninstalling a browser from the Start Menu using its uninstaller clears the profile & you lose bookmarks, settings etc.

K-Meleon ~ Not a Melon!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2010 12:28AM by Daveski17.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 11, 2010 01:47AM

Quote
Daveski17
The reason that I asked is because sometimes uninstalling a browser from the Start Menu using its uninstaller clears the profile & you lose bookmarks, settings etc.

Of course it does, and regardless whether from Start menu or otherwise. "Uninstall" always means throw everything away, DELETE EVERYTHING! So uninstalled programs only do what you tell them to.

So if you want to uninstall a program, but still keep parts of it, just make a copy of those parts that you want to keep. With KM that is simple: A copy of the bookmark folder, and, if you want to keep also your extensions and other stuff, do also a copy of the KM program folder. That's really quite easy.
It is even easier if you first try out the new version in a portable installation (single-user mode), completely independant, and play around with copying your bookmarks and other things into it, without any danger. Because there's still the 'old' version fully intact and working.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Harry
Date: March 11, 2010 02:08AM

I don't believe this. I install a (probably pretty minor) update into the existing directory, as I#ve done hundreds of times with other types of software leaving all th epersonal stuff intact, and bang, all my settings, bookmarks, passwords -- everything -- painstakingly built up over months and years, get zapped in an instant, without so much as a warning. Why on earth would I want that?

"in general "over the top" seems the best method to me - provided the old profile folder and program folder is copied first. Cannot recommand that enough."

Well, I know that *now*. Would it have been a lot of trouble for the new installation to have come with some kind of warning? I am at the "throwing the computer out of the window" level of furious. A thing like this can do a lot to help you fall out of love with a piece of software. After all, if I'd wanted something stupid, annoying and unhelpful that makes hours of unnecessary work for the unsuspecting user, I'd have stuck with the Microsoft offering, right?!

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: disrupted
Date: March 11, 2010 02:14AM

almost all uninstallers for programs that use a separate profile directory offer you 2 uninstall options.. either keep your settings(profile) or remove settings as well. i'm not sure about the nsis uninstall, alain should know.
naturally a single user install(profile.ini) will not offer that option

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 11, 2010 02:25AM

Quote
Harry
I install a (probably pretty minor) update into the existing directory

Hey, no reason to panic, if you've really just done a "minor update into the existing directory"! Your profile only is lost if you explicitely "UNINSTALL" the whole program, or delete the profile folder, otherwise your old stuff is still there, don't worry...
Sure looks scaring at first, but look into your user data folder to find your old profile, or if you had a portable installation, look in your KMeleon/Profiles-folder, then copy over its contents into the new profile.

I agree that there should be more info in the setup, especially for single-user mode. And only now I'm really understanding why the profiles folders get such odd random names, each new one another grinning smiley



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2010 02:40AM by siria.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: SF
Date: March 11, 2010 02:43AM

If prepping for an over the top install how or where does one back up the profile?

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 11, 2010 03:04AM

Just make a copy of the profile folder. If you know how to use the file manager (windows explorer) that's quite easy. Where doesn't matter, just remember the place, and do not 'uninstall'.

If you don't know where to find your current profile, click Edit > Configuration > Profiles Folder, then go up a level or two. Right-click to copy, then right-click to paste.
Personally I'd also make a copy of the programs/K-Meleon folder, but profile sure is more important. Bookmarks, passwords, cookies, shortcuts and other personal stuff is all stored in the profile.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Harry
Date: March 11, 2010 06:01AM

Thanks for your reassurance Siria. I must be very stupid but I still don't understand how to identify the relevant directory. I have two folders in C:\Documents and Settings[user]\Application Data\K-Meleon\ and both of them have files timestamped after the update to the latest version. What files should I copy from where to where?

And (to the developers) why does it have to be like this? Why can't K-Meleon just carry on using the existing profile files like any other piece of software and not waste my time and ruin my evening like this? This has been a gigantic pain in the arse for almost certainly no benefit to me whatsoever. Why didn't I just carry on using 1.5.3?

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 11, 2010 07:21AM

Hmm, must admit am a little confused that you have two folders timestamped later, but that's where one cannot tell much from remote any more, only you in front of your box. My assumption is that you had multi-user-version (profile in c-docsets-etc) with 153 and single-user-version (portable, profile inside c-programs-etc) with 154 or vice-versa, or both are portable versions but in different directories?
The old profile IS reused automatically, 'usually' - that is if both versions (old and new) were set to have their profiles in the user data folder (multi-user-setup).

So you have located one of the two most relevant directories. Did you find your "bookmarks.html" in one? If not, look now into the program folder (c-programs-K-Meleon) and check if there's a Profiles folder, that contains your "bookmarks.html". If you had installed either 153 or 154 outside c-programs, look there, wherever... Hey, or just open the file explorer and do a search for bookmarks html?
That sounds all so complicated to describe but basically is quite simple!

The question "copy TO where" is easiest: into your current profile. Open the browser and click Edit > Configuration > Profiles Folder

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Harry
Date: March 11, 2010 10:41AM

Aha! I've got it, at least as regards the bookmarks. They're stored in the Programs folder rather than in ApplicationData. Now, all I need is some way of telling the browser to use the other profile settings there rather than in ApplicationData where it seems to want them to be...

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Harry
Date: March 11, 2010 10:47AM

As for single and multi-user installations of KM, what I want is to have the same settings apply (and be able to be modified) across several accounts on the same PC, which is only used by me -- if that makes sense. I'm using WinXP with an admin login as well as "my" account, but I want KM to look and feel the same everywhere. Very grateful for your help, siria.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: siria
Date: March 11, 2010 01:16PM

Okay, if you've found your data again, the rest is easier. The way you want it, is the portable 'single-user' install, and that makes a lot of sense, I'm using that too smiling smiley
Looks like you chose 'multi-user' for this installation, and to switch afterwards just create an empty file 'profile.ini' in your KMeleon program folder, Restart the browser, and it starts looking in the 'build-in' folder 'Profiles' for a second file 'profileS.ini' that tells it the paths.... most likely..... ;-)

EDIT:
Oh man, only realizing now that all this searching and struggling was quite unnecessary! *blush*. Because from the start it only boiled down to one simple question:

Is there a "profile.ini" in your K-Meleon top folder? If yes, delete it, if no, create it!


I'm just too much a "simply-unzip-and-run-portable"-person, and didn't realize that in case of different setups the installer seems to delete the profile.ini without any note to the user. It should first offer him to either move, duplicate, ignore or delete his old profiles, and of course the same for the other way around.
Thinking about it yet longer, this starts feeling a bit familiar... yes, dimly remember now that's long since known and was mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten it since *blushagain*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2010 02:38PM by siria.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Daveski17
Date: March 11, 2010 07:32PM

Quote
siria
Quote
Daveski17
The reason that I asked is because sometimes uninstalling a browser from the Start Menu using its uninstaller clears the profile & you lose bookmarks, settings etc.

Of course it does, and regardless whether from Start menu or otherwise. "Uninstall" always means throw everything away, DELETE EVERYTHING! So uninstalled programs only do what you tell them to.

OK thanks for the info. The reason that I asked is that Firefox/SeaMonkey can be uninstalled keeping the profile folder intact.

If I have understood you correctly, you are saying that if I just uninstall K-Meleon it won't save my profile unless I deliberately copy & save it?

K-Meleon ~ Not a Melon!

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: ndebord
Date: March 11, 2010 08:28PM

Quote
Daveski17
Quote
siria
Quote
Daveski17
The reason that I asked is because sometimes uninstalling a browser from the Start Menu using its uninstaller clears the profile & you lose bookmarks, settings etc.

Of course it does, and regardless whether from Start menu or otherwise. "Uninstall" always means throw everything away, DELETE EVERYTHING! So uninstalled programs only do what you tell them to.

OK thanks for the info. The reason that I asked is that Firefox/SeaMonkey can be uninstalled keeping the profile folder intact.

If I have understood you correctly, you are saying that if I just uninstall K-Meleon it won't save my profile unless I deliberately copy & save it?

Daveski17,

If you used the installer and went for the multi-user option, then K-Meleon put profile info into one of your windows sub-folders. If you went for the single-user option, then K-Meleon put profile info into your c:\program files\k-meleon\profiles (then random number generated folder). The latter can be saved, but you have to load up one of (disrupted's macro I think) of the backup extensions and run it. Personally, I use the single-user approach and just zip up everything on a regular basis.

N

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: JamesD
Date: March 11, 2010 09:33PM

I have an old profile backup system in the MacroLibrary. http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/KmmResProfile

It is nothing fancy. Just copies the whole profile to another location. I created a folder named "Reserve" under My Documents and I choose that for the copy location.

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Re: Clean install or 'over the top'?
Posted by: Daveski17
Date: March 12, 2010 12:35AM

Quote
ndebord

Daveski17,

If you used the installer and went for the multi-user option, then K-Meleon put profile info into one of your windows sub-folders. If you went for the single-user option, then K-Meleon put profile info into your c:\program files\k-meleon\profiles (then random number generated folder). The latter can be saved, but you have to load up one of (disrupted's macro I think) of the backup extensions and run it. Personally, I use the single-user approach and just zip up everything on a regular basis.

OK Thanks for the reply. Just out of interest, when do you reckon KM 1.6 final will be released?

K-Meleon ~ Not a Melon!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2010 12:37AM by Daveski17.

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