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Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 09, 2010 06:13PM

Hi,

this is to open a thread for exchanging Tricks 'n Tweaks for (almost) keybordless browsing.

To me it seems as if not using your keyboard very much is regarded as inefficient, unprofessional, non-geeky, and consuming too much screen space by many

I, for one, like to browse lying in my bed, and I think there are various reasons (more or less reasonable than mine!) to not wanting to use the keyboard much.

And I think there are ways to make mouse-only browsing being almost as efficient as when using your KBd a lot, and make it using very little space for the UI.

That is especially true for this jewel of a browser, with
--context menus for its buttons (- I have never seen that before, that IS a dream)
--almost limitless cofigurability of all menus and bars (still a bit trial and error, but I'm learning)
--MouseGestures out-of-the-box, and highly configurable
--an extension called AutoClip – just select text, it's in the clipboard instantly (Edit: uninstalled that now - too hard getting used to)
--the paste-and-go/paste-and-search functionality integrated.

Now, I am going to use the next posting to introduce, for now, a bit of what I have tweaked here so far, and I invite everybody interested to add his Tricks 'n Tweaks, and to comment (-well, if your comment would go like "who in the world needs mouse-only browsing": please stay away, there are other threads for you, or start your own).

If I can keep up with it, I will now and then edit that second posting to collect all the tweaks in one place

Have a nice time!
SoerenB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2010 11:12PM by SoerenB.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 09, 2010 06:14PM

Hi,

I had found this extension:

"Toggle tabbar display in fullscreen"

Now, what I see in full screen, which I toggle with the Up-Right gesture: the tab bar at the top, below that only content.

The tab bar holds, on the right side, the zoom buttons, the Close button, and the CompactMenu button.

Now what is so great about K-Meleon: I was not only able to uncomment, from Tab/&Window Buttons, the "New" (***) button, and put the Zoom buttons and the CompactMenu there, I even started to unclutter their menus, removing elements I hardly ever need, putting things I use often on top.

One bar I was afraid I woul not be able to hide was the PrivacyBar, which, alas, even cannot be compacted. But I found a workaround. The PrivacyMenu is a submenu of the ToolsMenu. I managed to isolate it from there, which, btw, afterwards I did with the WebSearchMenu, too. I put them both on the top menu level.

When I RightClick on my CompactMenu button now, the menu popping up reads, from top to bottom: Privacy, File, Edit, View, Tools, Sessions, Help, Bookmarks, WebSearch. This makes Privacy the menu the easiest to reach – no need for the toolbar.

(***) I make new Tabs by middleClick, new windows from the CompactMenu>File.

No time to elaborate for now – maybe someone else is so kind?

Have a nice time!

SoerenB



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2010 04:59PM by SoerenB.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: siria
Date: January 09, 2010 08:40PM

Whow, very nice collection, and a LOT of work, you're really customizing to the max grinning smiley

Just one thing where I'm not sure if you're aware of: As long as it's just for browsing around, you probably need not have anything in the clipboard. The selected text is already used out-of-the-box for opening text as URL (just right-click on selection, or -if visible- select text and hit the Go-Button), and for opening text as search-term (select text and -if visible- hit the Globe). Then again - guess you've hidden the globe? Hm, wonder which of the ways to search you use now?

Quote

I was not only able to uncomment, from Tab/&Window Buttons, the "New" (***) button

Sounds like that UNcomment is just a typo...? By the way I have it just the other way around, middle-click closes tabs (which seems to be used also by some other apps by default, like SciTE), and double-click opens new tabs (which is less comfortable and also less often needed) :-)

Just curious: You've hidden the stop-button? So you click ESC instead, or how...? And what's on your compact-menu right-click? (Just thinking about it because lots of people use the stop-button to put the privacy menu on its right-click ;-)

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: Doon
Date: January 10, 2010 08:34PM

A great start SoerenB, it's nice to see a new user contributing useful content. I agree with your 'jewel of a browser' sentiments, and I also like to use only the mouse at times. However, I would not want to be without my customized menu and toolbars visible, being so easy to click.

In my first days with K-Meleon and this forum I described in detail how to edit and customize menus and toolbars and such, perhaps my notes will be useful to some.
They are all in one thread, starting HERE.

For the sake of an example, I customized my webpage right-click context menu to look like this:
Back
Forward
Stop
Reload
Select All
Find
------------
Web Search > (turns out I don't use this)
Translation >
------------
Page Properties >
------------
Full Screen

I've also attached the privacy menu to the Stop button as a right-click/long-click option, as Siria mentioned (instructions are in my notes linked above).



Using a virtual keyboard will allow you to type with your mouse. They offer a small floating window in the shape of a keyboard, allowing you to click the keys with your mouse. You can insert text into whatever field you have clicked in previously, you can also navigate the url bar history with virtual arrow keys and characters.

There are numerous free ones available and Microsoft offers one called "osk.exe" or "on screen keyboard" in XP and later, I suppose the Microsoft one might offer more localized key options. I found a small, simple, free, English one HERE (a self contained executable, but it creates a few simple registy entries for it's settings when run).



To invoke it from K-Meleon I added the following to an existing macro .KMM file:

VirtKeyboard{
exec("H:\\K-Meleon\\Tools\\keyboard\\vkt.exe");
}


To launch the macro from my context menu I mentioned above, I clicked
"Edit >> Configuration >> Menus" and added the line "Virtual Keyboard=macros(VirtKeyboard)" to my "Document" section. Now "Virtual Keyboard" is listed just under "Translation" in my context menu. Now I can burn even fewer calories per day. :-)

My actual context menu code:
Document{
Bac&k=ID_NAV_BACK
For&ward=ID_NAV_FORWARD
S&top=ID_NAV_STOP
&Reload=ID_NAV_RELOAD
Select All=ID_EDIT_SELECT_ALL
Find=ID_EDIT_FIND
!WebServices
Virtual Keyboard=macros(VirtKeyboard)
!DocumentOpenExternal
!DocumentSave
}

These instructions are specific to my PC of course, and are merely an example, but I've described all of these procedures in my notes referenced in the link above. I welcome others to improve on this concept, create extensions, etc.


Note about using osk.exe:
Quote
SoerenB
On WinXP (and probably above), it is enough to call it by

VirtKeybd{
exec("osk.exe");
}

, because osk.exe is in the system folder.


These mouse-only methods make me think about accessibility options, I don't know what has been written about K-Meleon's potential for those with disabilities but I would think it could be quite a useful tool.





Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 03:14AM by Doon.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: Yogi
Date: January 11, 2010 12:14AM

Quote
SoerenB
And I think there are ways to make mouse-only browsing being almost as efficient as when using your KBd a lot, and make it using very little space for the UI.

Mouse gestures and the ease of UI customization according to my personal preferences are two of the main reasons I favor K-Meleon and Opera.
Some of the most frequently gestures used with K-Meleon:
left and right - forward
right and left - back
drag up - new tab
drag down - close tab
drag right - new window
drag left - close window/exit K-M (if only one window is open)

Quote
SoerenB
This makes Privacy the menu the easiest to reach – no need for the toolbar.

That's the great advantage of having the possibility for costumizing the UI according to everyones need, since those needs might differ quite a lot smiling smiley
Just as an example, the privacy bar is essential to me:
As a matter of principle (for some good reasons for me at least) I always have cookies, JavaScript, referrer disabled while my local filtering proxy is enabled. Nevertheless sometimes for different reasons I have to change those settings and without privacy bar visualization I might easily forget to reset them (already happened a few times before I added 'Proxy' to my privacy bar) according to my defaults.

- Apology for being a little off topic.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 12, 2010 06:00PM

Hi,

thank you all for your gentle replies.

Yogi: "...needs might differ quite a lot...": Yes, of course. And concerning the PrivacyBar, I hadn't accounted for the need of visual feedback - good point there. Maybe I'll try to shrink that to 12 pixels height, have more contrast between hot and cold buttons.

But then again: how could I keep that one in FullScreen along with the TabBar, omitting the uppermost Bar, which holds, from left to right:

HistoryButton
BookmarkButton
AdressBar
GoButton
SearchGlobe
ASP+ and Readability Buttons

If anybody could show me some code for toggling visibility of whole Bar lines, I'd come even closer to what I want - and, honestly, I don't need a TitleBar in any mode.

Back to visual feedback for the privacy settings: maybe there is a way to show their status in a semi transparent, auto-hiding floating widget? But that is way beyond my scope of trial-and-error copying of *.cfg code lines.

Regards
SoerenB

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 12, 2010 06:06PM

Hi,

Doon: "These mouse-only methods make me think about accessibility options"

Well, yes, in my eyes (no pun intended!), this adresses accessibility issues in two ways:
I have been fairly myopic from childhood on - and, approaching my 60th, eyesight is not getting better. So, big fonts are GOOD. But they take big space, so let's get rid of bars we dont need permanently, particularly as it is SOO easy to unhide them just by a flick of the mouse.

On the other hand: for people who don't have the full command of BOTH of their hands, mouse-only browsing surely must be more agreeable? Any comments from persons concerned?

Thank you for the VitualKeyboard Code. I run osk.exe almost always, but now I can call it from K-Meleon; I applied that instantly. On WinXP (and probably above), it is enough to call it by

VirtKeybd{
exec("osk.exe");
}

, because osk.exe is in the system folder.

Concerning the menus: I'll try putting up some screenshots in my Next - 1 pic/1000words...
I haven't worked through your menu config thread, but on first sight, this looks like a wealth of information!

Regards
SoerenB

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 12, 2010 06:33PM

siria:

a special Dankeschön for you! I think your "drag-n-dropping a tab into the browser window reloads it!" from your
"Learning something new every day"
set off the frenzy I am in with this. -- A left-click Gesture! - freeing one of the RClick ones for something else! - I just wish we could have LClick Gestures for links, and drag'n drop for bookmarks. That, I am afraid, can not be done by just editing some text files.

"Sounds like that UNcomment is just a typo...?" rather a quick mistranslation from DE "auskommentieren".

"-if visible- hit the Globe). Then again - guess you've hidden the globe?"
- Yes, hidden in FullScreen, of course. Uninstalled AutoClipCopy, too, not really needed. Here's an image of my SelectedTextContextMenu:



that is all I need for searching.


"You've hidden the stop-button? So you click ESC instead, or how...?"
No hitting keys, remember? Here's my PageContent Menu:



(When transferring the menu.bmp from Klassic to Phoenity, I forgot to take the menuicon.cfg along - so some of the icons are a bit - well - misplaced?)

CloseButtonContext:



CompactMenuPrivacy:



Finally, CompactMenuTools, rather empty:



If anybody wants to know how I did this ... I'd rather publish my whole menu.cfg, and then you tell me how....

Now, How I

  • CloseTabs: Close or LeftDoubleClick on the Tab.
  • Open Tabs: LeftDoubleClick on the Tabbar, or, if that is full, MClick on a Tab.
    For me, Doubleclick is easier than MClick. (MButton on my cheap mouse has to be pressed quite hard, on the other hand, I have my doubleClickDelayTime to a slow setting.
Finally, my mouse gestures:
  • RL: Back
  • LR: Forward
  • UpLeft: Previously selected tab
  • UpRight: Fullscreen
  • DownLeft: FindNext (opens the FindBar if not open already,
    I close it with its own CloseButton)
  • DownRight: Open in new Background Tab - which I usually do.
  • Up/Down: Scroll up/down ONE PAGE
  • Left/Right: Scroll Left/Right a few cm.
I achieved these 4 rather clumsily: Compiled four .exes, 203 kB each, from Autohotkey, put four macroLines in some .kmm. Works, if a bit sluggish. Suggestions to solve this a bit easier are welcome.

Regards
SoerenB



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2010 04:55PM by SoerenB.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: Doon
Date: January 14, 2010 03:23AM

Thanks SoerenB, this has all been very interesting. I must credit you for my new virtual keyboard, I never used one until thinking about your mouse-only concept. I'm sure it will be useful in many future scenarios.



Anyone fond of mouse gestures should consider a freeware gem called StrokeIt.

From msg-99854:
Quote
jsnj
Strokeit makes alot more sense to me since it hardly uses any resources and can work with just about any app. Now they even have a portable version. No need to fiddle with each apps mouse gesture feature. It was even made by KM's original developer.

StrokeIt home page: http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit



Also, just to mention some useful postings...

The following thread offers tips for minimizing the size of the user interface:
- http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,97000

With a bit of imagination this thread may offer some interesting concepts too:
- http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?10,97029



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 05:56AM by Doon.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 15, 2010 05:36AM

Thanks a lot, Doon,

I'm afraid i'm suffering from information overload, so just two things:

Does StrokeIt come with the "rocker" feature included in KM? That is, IMHO, what we call a killer feature here: If you want to navigate, say, 3 pages back, keep RButton pressed, LClick three times - voila!

Fiddling with Autohotkey again, searching the web, I found, at last! a way to hide the TitleBar. Haven't been able yet to figure everything out. If there is someone more familiar with ahk and KM than me, see

http://my.opera.com/Tamil/blog/hide-opera-title-bar

else I will post my humble findings here when I know more.

Regards
SoerenB

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: desga2
Date: January 15, 2010 06:29AM

I don't know ahk, but I know this can be do with AutoIt3. Some time ago I created a small AutoIt tool to change KM window properties: KWC
(Also here & here)
If someone like add this function (or some other) to KWC I can release the AutoIt sources for this tool.
You can found how to hide title bar with AutoIt in this AutoIt's Forum thread.

If anyone want added it, I'll try to added it this weekend when I have some free time.

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 06:31AM by desga2.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: disrupted
Date: January 15, 2010 06:38AM

http://kmext.sourceforge.net/files/toggletitlebar.7z
menu: file>titlebar toggler
accel: alt+shift+t

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 19, 2010 04:41PM

Thanks, desga and disrupted - though I opted for Autohotkey at last. That is what I am at least a bit familiar with.
I made a ToggTitleBar.ahk, which will work system wide, not only for KM.
And I made a ToggToolBar.ahk for K-Meleon.
For anybody interested: you must download & install Autohotkey, from www.autohotkey.com.
You can download one or both of my files. For instructions, open them with a text editor.
When both files are set up according to your needs, you may even compile them, from their context menu, to have small .exes, and uninstall Autohotkey afterwards.

Cheers!
SoerenB

PS How do I load up my files? Or should I just paste code blocks here?

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: desga2
Date: January 20, 2010 04:27AM

You can post here the code of files if there aren't big files else is better send me by mail and I upload some web server.
Or you can upload to some of disrupted open server counts like this.

K-Meleon in Spanish

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: January 23, 2010 04:49PM

Hi!

I'm re-writing this completely. I'm sorry I had not realised the scope of "disrupteds" solution to toggle the titlebar. His "toggletitlebar.kmm" is at the bottom of the following:

The context menu of the ZoomOut Button holds the same actions as the ZoomIn ones, so I replaced them with a new menu, named "Accessible", which I created in menus.cfg. I populated that with disrupteds "titlebar toggler", and the simple "Readability" command (from the Readability macro, without the "settings", which still can be set via -> view -> readability.

I then realized I could use the WinChanger.exe which came with "titlebar toggler" to reach two of my other goals.

1) Not only start the virtual keyboard from K-Meleon, but on top of that, restore/unhide one already running.
2) Toggle a complete toolbar

___________________________________________________________
for that, I had to edit disrupteds toggletitlebar.kmm.
My version:__________________________________________________


# K-Meleon Macros (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?id=MacroLanguage)
#
# ---------toggletitlebar with winchanger by ayushu(included in package)

$_tool_path=getfolder(RootFolder)."\\Tools";

togtitlebar{
exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-Title:#CLASSKMeleon Browser Window");
}

toggletitle_BuildMenu{
setmenu("&View",macro,"TitleBar Toggler",togtitlebar,2);
}

togtitlebar_SetAccels{
setaccel("ALT SHIFT T","macros(togtitlebar)");
}

# ---------toggletoolbar

togtoolbar{
exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-SendKeys:#CLASSKMeleon Browser

Window,{ALTDOWN} 02456 {ALTUP}");
}

toggletool_BuildMenu{
setmenu("&View",macro,"ToolBar Toggler",togtoolbar,2);
}

togtoolbar_SetAccels{
setaccel("ALT SHIFT o","macros(togtoolbar)");
}

# ---------VirtKeybd

VirtKeybd{
exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-Restore: Bildschirmtastatur");
exec("osk.exe");
}

OSK_BuildMenu{
setmenu("&View",macro,"OnScreenKeybd",VirtKeybd,2);
}

VirtKeybd_SetAccels{
setaccel("ALT SHIFT v","macros(VirtKeybd)");
}

$OnInit=$OnInit."togtoolbar_SetAccels;toggletool_BuildMenu;";
$OnInit=$OnInit."togtitlebar_SetAccels;toggletitle_BuildMenu;";
$OnInit=$OnInit."VirtKeybd_SetAccels;OSK_BuildMenu;";
##-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$macroModules=$macroModules."toggletitle;";
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
in toolbars.cfg: edited ZoomOutButton Context Menu:____________________

Zoom Out{
%ifplugin macros
macros(Zoom_Out)|Accessible
Zoom Out. Right-click Accessibility options.
%else
ID_F.......
.......
__________________________________________________________________
in Readability > ReadabilityMenu
added Line: _____________________________________

setmenu("Accessible",macro,"Readability",Readability);
__________________________________________________________________
in menus.cfg:______________________________________________________


# ----- Accessible

Accessible{
ToolBar Toggler=macros(togtoolbar)
TitleBar Toggler=macros(togtitlebar)
StatusBar Toggler=ID_VIEW_STATUS_BAR
&Virtual Keyboard=macros(VirtKeybd)
}
_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________
If the numbers for "togtoolbar" up there need more explanation, I may give that later, if needed. See this: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?1,8921,8932#msg-8932
Open your accel.cfg, scroll down,
ALT 0 = 2000
ALT 1 = 2001
..
...
....
ALT 9 = 2009
If these are not enough for your number of bars, ask here.

Save, Restart (Make sure the launcher is restarted as well...)

Now, playing with those shortcuts, establish which numbers you need to have between {ALTDOWN} and {ALTUP} up there to switch off one of your toolbars completely.

cheers
SoerenB



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 07:59PM by SoerenB.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: Matt
Date: February 17, 2010 02:12AM

I pinched sysmenu.bmp from Hao's CCF, copied it onto \skins\my_current_skin and added the code below to my toolbars.cfg

System(16,16){
	Minimize{
	ID_MINIMIZE_WINDOW
	Minimize Window
	sysmenu.bmp[0]
	sysmenu.bmp[0]
	sysmenu.bmp[0]	
	}
	Maximize{	
        ID_MAXIMIZE_WINDOW
	Maximize Window
	sysmenu.bmp[1]
	sysmenu.bmp[1]
	sysmenu.bmp[1]	
	}
	close{
	ID_APP_EXIT
	Close K-Meleon
	sysmenu.bmp[2]
	sysmenu.bmp[2]
	sysmenu.bmp[2]
	}



It works great with disrupted's toggletitlebar smiling smiley.

Quote
disrupted
http://kmext.sourceforge.net/files/toggletitlebar.7z
menu: file>titlebar toggler
accel: alt+shift+t

disrupted, I would like winchanger to remember my settings, I mean, after I close K-M with titlebar hidden it should start with it hidden too. Is it even possible?

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: siria
Date: February 17, 2010 03:10AM

Nice idea smiling smiley Just for curiosity I looked a bit around in the commands list, and there are also two commands ID_RESTORE_WINDOW and ID_TOGGLE_WINDOW, which look interesting too. Especially the "toggle", it seems to switch between restored/maximized, just like the default windows button.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: February 17, 2010 04:42AM

Hi,

@siria: that is one of the items T'd want more gestures for....

@matt: I put

$OnOpenWindow=$OnOpenWindow."togtitlebar";

on top of the $OnInit lines - that way all windows open without a titlebar.

Cheers
SoerenB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2010 04:42AM by SoerenB.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: Matt
Date: February 17, 2010 05:37AM

Quote
siria
Just for curiosity I looked a bit around in the commands list, and there are also two commands ID_RESTORE_WINDOW and ID_TOGGLE_WINDOW, which look interesting too.

Siria, I tried to put those commands into toolbars.cfg; it doesn't work, though. I think it needs some more work.

Quote
SoerenB
I put
$OnOpenWindow=$OnOpenWindow."togtitlebar";

Exactly what I needed. Thank you, Soeren (hätte ich daran bloß selber gedacht ;-)).

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: siria
Date: February 17, 2010 06:35AM

Quote
Matt
Quote
siria
Just for curiosity I looked a bit around in the commands list, and there are also two commands ID_RESTORE_WINDOW and ID_TOGGLE_WINDOW, which look interesting too.

Siria, I tried to put those commands into toolbars.cfg; it doesn't work, though. I think it needs some more work.

I've tried them too in toolbars.cfg, and they work here, under "normal" conditions. Actually I was curious to see what happens when clicking "Restore" in fullscreen mode cool smiley The funny thing is, looks like the big FS is considered like a "restore" size! The maximizing button does what it shalls, the restore button restores FS again. And after really ending FS with F11 again, the "restore-size" is again the small window it was before the test. No idea, but perhaps the togtitlebar is using FS behind the scenes too, or some other special mode? (Haven't tried that yet myself)

PS: Bin ja immer wieder überrascht, wieviel deutschsprachige hier aktiv sind grinning smiley Hab den Eindruck das sind bestimmt ein Viertel, wenn nicht sogar ein Drittel, LOL! Wunder mich nur immer wieder, warum die Länder hier nicht etwas breiter gestreut sind, komisch.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: disrupted
Date: February 17, 2010 06:42AM

disrupted, I would like winchanger to remember my settings, I mean, after I close K-M with titlebar hidden it should start with it hidden too. Is it even possible?[/quote]

i have no idea, i didn't write it (why code when you can download grinning smiley), it was written by opera user ayshuji.. i don't think it supports saving settings and he didn't include source code so one can tinker with it.. it looks like authotkey so even if he supplied ahk i probably couldn't do a lot with it, i\m no good with ahk

this is the website and command parameters it supports
http://my.opera.com/AyushJ/blog/winchanger

it's possible to make something in autoit but i don't understand why is everyone trying to work around without the titlebar.. you can just go fullscreen. the titlebar is important and it doesn't take space from the page content anyways, it seems everyone wants to follow the google look but removing the titlebar isn't exactly the proper way to do it in windows api programming even chrome did not remove the titlebar, it just pushed the tabs up a little on it and then covered the whole fiasco with a skin

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: February 17, 2010 03:54PM

Hi, disrupted,

Quote

i don't understand why is everyone trying to work around without the titlebar.. you can just go fullscreen. the titlebar is important and it doesn't take space from the page content anyways, it seems everyone wants to follow the google look but removing the titlebar isn't exactly the proper way to do it in windows api programming even chrome did not remove the titlebar, it just pushed the tabs up a little on it and then covered the whole fiasco with a skin

Well, I'll try to explain...
Firstly...Be glad your eyes are still good enough for the size of your screen. Believe me, more and more people browse not in such a good circumstances - I certainly don't. So I'm scroogy with every square millimeter of my screen.

I was so before before chrome, and believe me, chrome is for people with good eyesight: monstruous tabs with tineee leeettle characters...And for a mouseBrowser like me, there could hardly be a worse place for the tabs, far away from the content.

Concerning Fullscreen: I simply do not like it. If it really is FS, I feel like locked out from the rest of my PC. I always want my tabbar - can't have that at no cost, even with your FS-tabbartog. Page display changes too much from FS to medium-sized windowed mode - I simply do not like it (am I completely alone with that?)

But, what chrome, and for example all the "compactMenue" thingies in Firefox did, was opening my eyes to the fact that the "proper way to do (it) (things) in windows api programming" (your qoute) should not necessarily limit what I can expect from my browser. That is why I came to K-Meleon: I feel like here are the best opportunities to stretch the boundaries, and I want to add my share.

In my next, I am going to question some of PC OSes "Natural Laws" concerning browser windows.

Cheers,
SoerenB

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: disrupted
Date: February 18, 2010 01:00AM

ok, you need to start kmeleon without the titlebar? that's what matt asked for as well. i think this is achievable but it will be better if it worked outside the macro

this is, you will need to create a different shortcut on the desktop etc which passes the command first to the script that will run kmeleon

the window move without titlebar is not achievable naturally without fiddling in the core as hao mentioned, that is you can't just click on somewhere in the window 'easy move' maybe with a ousehook attached to autoit which will monitor your mouse and then moves the window if it detects clicking in a certain place, it will make the window follow the mouse..this will require the script to be running with kmeleon and always monitor your mouse...not very nice

other way, maybe better..a toolbar button that when clicked runs the script and moves the window following the mouse...onprimary click release it unhooks,

easier said than done grinning smiley

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: siria
Date: February 18, 2010 02:26AM

Another situation where a titlebar is just too big is on some tiny netbook screens, 9-10" supposedly but often only half as high as a modern desktop monitor. Just the default bars on top and on bottom and half the screen space is already gone :-( (Okay, perhaps 20-30%, but it *feels* like the half ;-)

Quote
SoerenB
Concerning Fullscreen: I simply do not like it. If it really is FS, I feel like locked out from the rest of my PC. I always want my tabbar - can't have that at no cost, even with your FS-tabbartog. Page display changes too much from FS to medium-sized windowed mode - I simply do not like it

FullScreen doesn't necessarily mean that any toolbars or the taskbar must be hidden - except one, the titlebar cool smiley But even so I already feel somehow locked out too grinning smiley Not really a prob, since modes are toggled with just one click, so why. The real problem is just the "medium-sized window mode", instead of maximized mode, but am sure you need it for some purpose smiling smiley

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: disrupted
Date: February 18, 2010 04:33AM
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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: desga2
Date: February 18, 2010 04:50AM

Quote
Matt
disrupted, I would like winchanger to remember my settings, I mean, after I close K-M with titlebar hidden it should start with it hidden too. Is it even possible?

I think this is easy to do.
Only you must store the title status in a pref and create a call to winchanger in the K-Meleon startup event.
For example using some of SoerenB's code:
# K-Meleon Macros (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?id=MacroLanguage)
#
# ---------toggletitlebar with winchanger by ayushu(included in package)

$_tool_path=getfolder(RootFolder)."\\Tools";

hidetitle{
# Check the pref state:
$_hidestatus = getpref(BOOL, "extension.toggletool.titlebarhide");
if ($_hidestatus) exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-Title:#CLASSKMeleon Browser Window");
}

togtitlebar{
exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-Title:#CLASSKMeleon Browser Window");
# Add code to toggle the pref state:
togglepref(BOOL, "extension.toggletool.titlebarhide");
}

toggletitle_BuildMenu{
setmenu("&View",macro,"TitleBar Toggler",togtitlebar,2);
}

togtitlebar_SetAccels{
setaccel("ALT SHIFT T","macros(togtitlebar)");
}

# ---------toggletoolbar

togtoolbar{
exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-SendKeys:#CLASSKMeleon Browser Window,{ALTDOWN} 02456 {ALTUP}");
}

toggletool_BuildMenu{
setmenu("&View",macro,"ToolBar Toggler",togtoolbar,2);
}

togtoolbar_SetAccels{
setaccel("ALT SHIFT o","macros(togtoolbar)");
}

# ---------VirtKeybd

VirtKeybd{
exec($_tool_path."\\winchanger\\winchanger.exe Window-Restore: Bildschirmtastatur");
exec("osk.exe");
}

OSK_BuildMenu{
setmenu("&View",macro,"OnScreenKeybd",VirtKeybd,2);
}

VirtKeybd_SetAccels{
setaccel("ALT SHIFT v","macros(VirtKeybd)");
}

$OnInit=$OnInit."togtoolbar_SetAccels;toggletool_BuildMenu;";
$OnInit=$OnInit."togtitlebar_SetAccels;toggletitle_BuildMenu;";
$OnInit=$OnInit."VirtKeybd_SetAccels;OSK_BuildMenu;";
$OnStartup=$OnStartup."hidetitle;";
##-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$macroModules=$macroModules."toggletitle;";

K-Meleon in Spanish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 04:52AM by desga2.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: Matt
Date: February 18, 2010 06:06PM

Thanks, desga but I think I say bye to winchanger too smiling smiley. Time to test TS-wincontrols.

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: February 18, 2010 09:11PM

Quote
desga
For example using some of SoerenB's code:

...to tell the truth: most, and mainly the important code, came from disrupted!


Cheers
SoerenB

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: February 22, 2010 03:13AM

Hi, disrupted,

my compliments, you seem to me so utterly quick and prolific. Sadly, I couldn't make

forum/read.php?9,103175

work on KM 1.53.

I'll post in that other thread.

Cheers
SoerenB

KM 1.74b4u1 in Wine 1.6 on Linux Mint 17 (XFCE)
- and still being surprised every day
how easily all of this works ...

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Re: Mouse-only browsing, efficient, much content space
Posted by: SoerenB
Date: February 22, 2010 05:10AM

Quote
myself
In my next, I am going to question some of PC OSes "Natural Laws" concerning browser windows.

....well, this is not "my next", much has been going on since ...just 4 days? - can't believe it!

So, now we can move, resize, whatever... windows without titlebars. So I'll just sketch out a few ideas for redesigning the Bars.

My main Idea would be: is there really a NEED for the UrlBar to be so static?
Things are more complex there than with the Stop and Reload buttons - nobody needs to see both of them all the time in a browser ... well ... in K-Meleon that may be different, ya know, ... their context menus....
But I am digressing.

So:
1) I need the URLBar - the whole width, yessSir! - AS LONG AS I type in it, or paste or... as long as I do something there. When that is done, it may well hide much of its content AFAIAC. It should roll up, say, to the right, unhiding, say, the bookmarksbar and the mainBar behind it.

I would want to be able to configure:
Its rolledUp width
Its rolledOut width
Display, when rolledUp, head&tail OR center&tail of the URL - or the page title.
The hotkey to rollOut & set the cursor
MouseMovement sensitivity & delay

The BookmarksBar is not very different, only, it is probably more used with the mouse, so those settings are more critical, but it could roll up even smaller than the URLBar. No click needed for rolling out, again just mouseMovement, - or a hotkey. I would suggest: rollUp to the left in western locales, to the right in R2L writing locales. That way the first Bookmarks/Folders are static.

Concerning the statusBar:
Even now, the URLBar has made some of the statusBars visual feedback obsolete: its background colour changes when on https. The "fission" idea could be revisited for "loading vs. ready" feedback.

Remaining: the statusBars most important task: informing us about links that we are hovering over. Well, I can't read them without bending my head quite close to the screen. Hasn't somebody made a tooltip workaround for that? But then again, that woukd be quite a flickering thing on some sites. Why not have a semitransparent, tooltip-like item of constant size (configurable...of course) up, left-center, on top of the mainBar when no other one is rolled out, and self-hiding when one of the other three items is used?

Well, you could give that whole topBar an icon with the systemMenu on the extreme left, 1 or 2 tiny buttons on the extreme right for window manipulation, and then call it titlebar, or whatever . I'd be glad.

I don't expect this to happen in the near future...

Now, which of my three profiles am I using just now ... wait ... have to toggle the titlebar first....

Cheers
SoerenB

KM 1.74b4u1 in Wine 1.6 on Linux Mint 17 (XFCE)
- and still being surprised every day
how easily all of this works ...

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